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Inside the mind of a high sec industrialist.
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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#81 - 2013-02-21 21:13:43 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Without the bears, and their subscription monies, CCP would be bankrupt.

Thousands of bots said the same, until they were woken up from their dreams...


The difference being that the bots were producing more than a player likely can. As a result, they were driving down market prices and driving out multiple other accounts.

When bots are removed and mineral prices are increased, carebear industrialists like me create enough new account to fill the void, not only replacing the bots, but more than replace them in subscribed account count goes.

There are no other accounts that would be created to replace the carebears that replaced the bots, should we be driven from the game.

We are not displacing people with other play styles.


I highly doubt that the increase in subscriptions after the removal of bots was significant.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-02-21 21:25:34 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:


Paying with PLEX:
In addition to the base "EVE would be better without you" argument that I'm sure CCP will continue to ignore, there is an argument made that by funding my accounts with PLEX means that CCP isn't making any money off me anyway.

In reality, the opposite is true. Not only is SOMEONE paying for the PLEX that funds my account, resulting in revenue for CCP, the PLEX is actually more expensive than just a base subscription renewal.

I can add a month to my account got $15 or year to my account for $131 ($11 a month).
The normal cost for a PLEX is $20, or 12 PLEX is $210 ($17.5 per).
CCP is currently running a sale, 1 PLEX for $17.5 or 13 PLEX for $200 ($15.4 per).

CCP makes MORE off accounts funded by PLEX than from accounts funded directly by the player.


For every one of your accounts that you subscribe by PLEX, that's a PLEX that didn't go to someone else. And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear.


The definition of tears right here.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#83 - 2013-02-21 21:31:15 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
We are not displacing people with other play styles.

You are, it's just not as painfully obvious as a person killing your ship.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#84 - 2013-02-21 21:42:38 UTC
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
So, basically, you're reopening a LOCKED THREAD because, why? you're bored? Trolling for more fighting?


The thread was locked, not because of the sub-conversation it spawned, but because the OP was a rant.

This thread is not a rant, but rather an attempt to explain to others why I play the way I do.

Perhaps it should have started with a:
TLDR: I don't ship-to-ship PVP, and you can't make me.


"an attempt to explain to others why i play the way i do"

you really needed to make a thread about this?

umm... nobody cares about the way you play...get over yourself. your existance in the eve universe is insignificant.

you keep threatening that if you get ganked you will just quit the game --- FFS, you sound like a 2 year old... GROW UP

i dont like pvp...blah blah blah

just save it man. NOBODY CARES



I CARE Big smile Tell me alllll about it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2013-02-21 21:45:00 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:


However, I disagree that Bears are a 'rather small portion of the producing population.' Given that the most commonly produced items are made in high sec, and the vast majority of of materials are gathered in high sec, it's more believable that that carebears are the majority of producers.


Its cheaper and easyer to produce everything in empire space and ship it to null sec. Bears would be lucky to have even 10% of the market.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2013-02-21 21:51:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I'm not sure where you get this 10% figure.
CCP's survey, as presented during fanfest.
.


Proving that the hard core players that attend fanfest are not the casual players that constitute the bulk of the high sec carebears? You don't need to hand out a questionnaire at fan fest to figure that out.

You get the exact same "self-selecting" faulting polling every time there is a CSM election. The casual players and loosely organized carebears largely wouldn't know whether there is a candidate worth voting for, and even if they did know, they may not bother to vote.

Whitehound
#87 - 2013-02-21 21:52:58 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Without the bears, and their subscription monies, CCP would be bankrupt.

Thousands of bots said the same, until they were woken up from their dreams...


The difference being ...

No, there is no difference here. You just keep believing CCP needs you. It is fine by me. Cool

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#88 - 2013-02-21 21:54:44 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
You say that EVE is about ship-to-ship PVP. Maybe that is what it is about to you, but that is NOT what it is about to me. To me, EVE is about harvesting resources, producing goods, driving the market.



market pvp is probably more ruthless than ship pvp anyways

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#89 - 2013-02-21 21:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Proving that the hard core players that attend fanfest are not the casual players that constitute the bulk of the high sec carebears?
“Presented”, not “gathered”. They are not synonyms, and reading is not that hard.

And no, it's not the same sampling problem as with the CSM. You may not know (or care about) who to vote for, but you do know (and care about) what you do in the game.

Incidentally, while we're talking about surveys… Surveys also show that PvE is less important for bringing people into EVE than having a Mac client. Lol
Mazelle
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2013-02-21 21:55:21 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Came expecting carebear tears, left satisfied.


Came expecting dozens of posts from insecure video gaming nerds about how hardass they are, left satisfied.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#91 - 2013-02-21 22:01:41 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
You say that EVE is about ship-to-ship PVP. Maybe that is what it is about to you, but that is NOT what it is about to me. To me, EVE is about harvesting resources, producing goods, driving the market..

Any twit who thinks that Eve is only about combat doesn't understand the depth of the game. Eve is about competition in every form: from combat to trading to space to raw materials. You understand that. Good for you.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
There is no mechanism that allows me to block getting a war dec against my player run corp, and that is fine.

An excellent attitude. I have no mechanism to avoid being subject to your effect on the market, and that's the way Eve is supposed to be.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
This policy, of course, angers those that look at industrialists like me as potential targets. Not my problem it they are unhappy that I refuse to give them what they want.


I say if it works for you, go for it. Just understand that if mercenaries were hired to interfere in your business, someone might find it profitable to keep you in station indefinitely for the cost of keeping the wardec alive.
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Being prepared to jump into PVP ships, does not protect against many of the tricks these losers use, like logging off in a belt, the using an out of corp alt cloaked up in that belt to watch for war target to show up in the belt. Then, they log in and auto warp to the belt, while their out of corp alt that was sitting there cloaked up bumps the exhumer. Poof, dead.


Don't return to the same belt. There were a couple of miners in a war a while back for whom I developed a great deal of respect: no matter what I did, they managed to evade me. They were prepared for every surprise I pulled out. Eve needs more people like that. We had some great conversations once I gave up hunting them, and both ended up leaving their inadequate little corp to join one owned by a friend of mine. They're munching rocks in w-space these days, making far better isk than they ever dreamed in highsec.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
Seriously, there is NO game mechanic tweak, no rebalance of reward, no other idea from you, that will make me accept being an easy target, that will force me to fight, or that will change the way I play.

Personally, I don't want to force change on you. You're exactly the kind of player I want. You accept that wars happen and simply act towards the best possible outcome. When your corp gets 20 wars in its history and NONE of them show any losses, you're absolutely right....no one is going to be interested in a war with you. It's a waste of time and money.

What I do want to change is people who want to be immune from combat PVP while still engaging in the rest of the game's competitive elements. You are affected by a war, even if you never lose assets. It's the thousands of NPC corp members and one-man corps that can dissolve and reform as soon as a wardec comes into view that are the problem. It's the ability of people to inflict THEIR gameplay on me, without me being able to respond in kind.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Arec Bardwin
#92 - 2013-02-21 22:05:33 UTC
Plenty of tears to moisten the sand in the box in this thread Big smile
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-02-21 22:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sariah Kion
Dont be sad

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#94 - 2013-02-21 22:21:33 UTC
LHA, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

You playstyle is just as valid as the most rabid PvP'er, and contrary to what the null sec propaganda teams here are saying, there are a LOT of players like you.

However, one thing you are wrong about is the sense of security you have for the playstyle to continue.
With the new CSM voting method being toyed with, and the ability of the null sec zealots to corral and focus legions of voters, expect the next CSM to be the most anti-high sec ever.

You will see big changes to high sec in the next 2 releases, and none of them will be good for high sec.

You have to examine the past of the most recent hires within CCP, plus the last propaganda attack by null sec (110 page threadnaught being the most obvious), plus who will be running the next CSM, to envision the direction of Eve in the short and medium term.

One thing I am doing is refining any loot/rocks/stuff I have around presently, because from reading that threadnaught, and what CCP DIDN'T say, I expect 100% refine in high sec to be impossible very soon, and I also expect low end mins to crash in high sec as CCP introduces superveld and superscordite to placate the null sec whiners. You can likely kiss goodbye T2 mfg in high sec in the Dec release.

Will this devastate high sec, and lead to the losses of tons of subs? Absolutely.
But the null sec zealots truly believe that this will lead to more subs in the long run (listen to Zebra Crossing's CSM interview with James 315 and be truly frightened), or, they simply don't care if subs are lost, as long as their game play is enriched.
Whitehound
#95 - 2013-02-21 22:24:14 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Dont be sad

Much better is... sadness is a blessing! Lol

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Kate stark
#96 - 2013-02-21 22:26:10 UTC
nerf the **** out of high sec!
enjoy 20 isk/unit trit!

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2013-02-21 22:32:43 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

I say if it works for you, go for it. Just understand that if mercenaries were hired to interfere in your business, someone might find it profitable to keep you in station indefinitely for the cost of keeping the wardec alive.


Fortunately, it is very easy for me to circumvent the war dec mechanism and return to doing my thing, regardless of how many mercenaries are hired to prevent it.


FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

What I do want to change is people who want to be immune from combat PVP while still engaging in the rest of the game's competitive elements. You are affected by a war, even if you never lose assets. It's the thousands of NPC corp members and one-man corps that can dissolve and reform as soon as a wardec comes into view that are the problem. It's the ability of people to inflict THEIR gameplay on me, without me being able to respond in kind.


That is not a problem, it is working as designed. CCP won't change it, because it is the NPC corps and ability to reform my player corp that keep me, and the other carebears that will not have play style dictated to us, playing this game.

If these mechanisms for avoiding war were not available, then I'd be sure to get a war dec that I'd be locked into, as soon as someone saw me in a belt. Locked into a war, unable to play the game the way I want to play it, I would quit playing. What I believe to be a significant portion of the player base, would stop playing, if they were locked into way with no easy way to avoid it.

There is a reason that CCP has created the mechanisms that it has. Hint, they want casual playing carebears to play.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#98 - 2013-02-21 22:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Mazelle wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Came expecting carebear tears, left satisfied.

Came expecting dozens of posts from insecure video gaming nerds about how hardass they are, left satisfied.

"Ten hour hero" alt poster tackling tough posts right here.

E: Oh wow, three year old forever noob, my bad. Damn Euro date formatt...

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2013-02-21 22:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
LHA Tarawa wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

I say if it works for you, go for it. Just understand that if mercenaries were hired to interfere in your business, someone might find it profitable to keep you in station indefinitely for the cost of keeping the wardec alive.


Fortunately, it is very easy for me to circumvent the war dec mechanism and return to doing my thing, regardless of how many mercenaries are hired to prevent it.


FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

What I do want to change is people who want to be immune from combat PVP while still engaging in the rest of the game's competitive elements. You are affected by a war, even if you never lose assets. It's the thousands of NPC corp members and one-man corps that can dissolve and reform as soon as a wardec comes into view that are the problem. It's the ability of people to inflict THEIR gameplay on me, without me being able to respond in kind.


That is not a problem, it is working as designed. CCP won't change it, because it is the NPC corps and ability to reform my player corp that keep me, and the other carebears that will not have play style dictated to us, playing this game.

If these mechanisms for avoiding war were not available, then I'd be sure to get a war dec that I'd be locked into, as soon as someone saw me in a belt. Locked into a war, unable to play the game the way I want to play it, I would quit playing. What I believe to be a significant portion of the player base, would stop playing, if they were locked into way with no easy way to avoid it.

There is a reason that CCP has created the mechanisms that it has. Hint, they want casual playing carebears to play.


you are the dysfunctional child sitting in the corner of the sandbox - eating the sand

while the other children are playing in it with tractors and dump trucks

whatever floats your boat

just dont see the need to start a thread "inside the mind of a sand eating bot"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bies/21969962/
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2013-02-21 22:46:34 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

However, one thing you are wrong about is the sense of security you have for the playstyle to continue.
With the new CSM voting method being toyed with, and the ability of the null sec zealots to corral and focus legions of voters, expect the next CSM to be the most anti-high sec ever.



Perhaps my trust is misguided, but from recent changes to game mechanics, I believe that CCP knows where it's bread is buttered and will continue to ignore all CSM calls to nerf high sec.


Too many exhumers getting ganked = buff to exhumer ehp.
Too many ganks, ability to sell kill rights.
Too many bumpers, a new bounty system.

On the flip side, it isn't like I have quit EVE before. If they make it easier for players to mess with me, and then I start getting messed with too much, it's plenty easy to just stop buying PLEX and using them to add time to my accounts. I'd rather that didn't happen, but it will be far from the end of the world.