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Any news about the "real" AI?
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goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#21 - 2013-02-20 08:54:02 UTC
I would add that the NPC's are the same as pvp'ers in that they see an easy target and the switch to it.

Lending a little comedy to it perhaps there is an NPC killboard where they tally up thier inconsequetial kills rated by what was the easiest kill rather than the most exspensive.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#22 - 2013-02-20 09:27:00 UTC
goldiiee wrote:
I would add that the NPC's are the same as pvp'ers in that they see an easy target and the switch to it.

Lending a little comedy to it perhaps there is an NPC killboard where they tally up thier inconsequetial kills rated by what was the easiest kill rather than the most exspensive.


They do not take "ease" into consideration, and they are nothing like PvP'ers.

If they were anything like decent PvP'ers they would surely kill the 5b vindicator that has been slaughtering them for hours now that its tank is actually breaking, rather than going for the one ship that is actually turning the tide for them..
Easy or not..
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#23 - 2013-02-20 09:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Singira
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Off topic a little, as I have seen this come up a fair bit.

Like its been said by someone here, there should be a few more variables as to what the AI picks as targets, and standing should be one. If a player has +5 vs the NPC's and the mission runnuer has -5, that should also be a factor.

As far as the AI switching, if the attacked player stopped firing, and concentrated on the attacker, there should still be a chance for the NPC to target either ship. I'm not saying 50/50 but neither should it be 99/1.

Everyone keeps saying that everything in this game should have a risk/vs reward and every time you make a part of the game have a highly predictable outcome because you piled up a bunch of stats, it makes that a little weird.

Mission AI predictability is already stupid and too easy for runners, it's even more annoying if those numbers can be used to calculate chances of killing ships easier.

Would really be nice if more randomness was thrown into the whole NPC equation. Probably just me.

But I do agree with the OP that the NPC shouldn't just toss a coin and attack someone.


I think that they should keep current missions and anoms as they have been for years, and create new content to experiment with rather than trying to make the old stuff new and exciting with a horrible results for a long time before they get the right mix.
They could even just make an "Elite" setting, then you could do your old missions if you wanted, or gain a little extra by switching on the "Elite mode" and thus making it harder and more exciting for those who want that.
Then you can add the random to the Elites cause it's "allready hard"

That way they just create more room for everyone, rather than trying to make a box that fits everyone..
zappp brannigann
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-02-20 18:03:40 UTC
Singira wrote:
goldiiee wrote:
I would add that the NPC's are the same as pvp'ers in that they see an easy target and the switch to it.

Lending a little comedy to it perhaps there is an NPC killboard where they tally up thier inconsequetial kills rated by what was the easiest kill rather than the most exspensive.


They do not take "ease" into consideration, and they are nothing like PvP'ers.

If they were anything like decent PvP'ers they would surely kill the 5b vindicator that has been slaughtering them for hours now that its tank is actually breaking, rather than going for the one ship that is actually turning the tide for them..
Easy or not..

Or they attack the ship that is leeching from them?

Sorry this form of PvP is slightly harder now. It needs to be fixed fast so you have no risk for your reward.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#25 - 2013-02-20 21:10:38 UTC
zappp brannigann wrote:
Singira wrote:
goldiiee wrote:
I would add that the NPC's are the same as pvp'ers in that they see an easy target and the switch to it.

Lending a little comedy to it perhaps there is an NPC killboard where they tally up thier inconsequetial kills rated by what was the easiest kill rather than the most exspensive.


They do not take "ease" into consideration, and they are nothing like PvP'ers.

If they were anything like decent PvP'ers they would surely kill the 5b vindicator that has been slaughtering them for hours now that its tank is actually breaking, rather than going for the one ship that is actually turning the tide for them..
Easy or not..

Or they attack the ship that is leeching from them?

Sorry this form of PvP is slightly harder now. It needs to be fixed fast so you have no risk for your reward.


Leeching...
Thats a fairly clueless statement..

This is not slightly harder, this is nigh impossible..
But funny how you consider it completely safe going 20+ jumps through hostile 0.0 space and attacking a ship many times your size with 20-100 of his allies in local, completely safe..

How about you actually try doing some PvP in any shape or form before making clueless statements about what is risk-free?

You are entitled to your oppinions, however clueless and risk averse they may be.
But I suggest you put your clueless rabble in a "QQ I want concorde in 0.0 while I rat plx" thread..
Just as I am entitled to find it amusing to hunt in this manner, welcome to the sandbox bro...

But yet again, this is not the topic..
I am just wondering when we will see this new AI..
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-02-20 22:43:55 UTC
Normally my response to questions like this would be "when it's done"

But since this is EVE.... "when it can inflict the most amount of problems on other areas of the game"


Twisted
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#27 - 2013-02-21 00:05:18 UTC
Klymer wrote:
Normally my response to questions like this would be "when it's done"

But since this is EVE.... "when it can inflict the most amount of problems on other areas of the game"


Twisted




When it is done is resonable, but a ballpark figure would be nice..
Are we talking a few months or are we talking a few expansions.. What?

"After retribution" is a bit on the wide side of estimates...
amurder Hakomairos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-02-21 00:36:13 UTC
You can have the "new AI" that will never attack you when they change PvE so that we can do it in PvP fit ships. I'm sure there will be crying over that as well.
zappp brannigann
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-02-21 01:02:44 UTC
Singira wrote:
[quote=zappp brannigann][quote=Singira]
Leeching...
Thats a fairly clueless statement..

This is not slightly harder, this is nigh impossible..
But funny how you consider it completely safe going 20+ jumps through hostile 0.0 space and attacking a ship many times your size with 20-100 of his allies in local, completely safe..

How about you actually try doing some PvP in any shape or form before making clueless statements about what is risk-free?

You are entitled to your oppinions, however clueless and risk averse they may be.
But I suggest you put your clueless rabble in a "QQ I want concorde in 0.0 while I rat plx" thread..
Just as I am entitled to find it amusing to hunt in this manner, welcome to the sandbox bro...

But yet again, this is not the topic..
I am just wondering when we will see this new AI..


Speaking of clueless and risk averse opinions and rabble.....

Again, sorry it is tougher to collect PVE fit killmails.

Welcome to the sandbox, where you can choose to hunt PVE ships, but you might have to put some effort and planning into killing them instead of warp -> pew pew.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#30 - 2013-02-21 01:07:53 UTC
amurder Hakomairos wrote:
You can have the "new AI" that will never attack you when they change PvE so that we can do it in PvP fit ships. I'm sure there will be crying over that as well.


Im sorry my PvP preferences does not meet the more common standards of beeing brave and pro in a 50-400man blob, and bravely do what the FC tells you..
Im sure I too will learn to be a mindless peon too someday..
Untill then I will just have to make do with the easy stuff like slipping through terribad gatecamps consisting of brave pro pvp'ers who boldly sit on gates for hours waiting for a lonely ship to jump in then bravely slaughtering it 20 vs 1...
Maby I too can learn to bravely run away from even odds aswell, but that is so advanced it will likely take years to master..

Problem with bringing a "proper" PvP ship solo into 0.0 is that you will eventually get blobbed, and it is usually sooner than later..
So I bring one with a cloaking device and jump you when the situation is in my favor..
Why does that make you so sad?
This playstyle really is just the product of blobs, if it is not viable to fly a "real" ship, then you look at other options.

Is it not easier to just pay attention to the game, then you will never get caught ratting, and people like me would never be of any real danger to pro PvP'ers such as the angry people in here...

It is really hilarious how you automatically assume that because I like to hunt ratters, I must then not be able to do anything else..
It is like assuming that ratters only rat because they are incapable of anything else than dumb predictable rats doing the same routine over and over...
Let's not even get started on miners with this train of thought...
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#31 - 2013-02-21 01:21:24 UTC
zappp brannigann wrote:
Singira wrote:
[quote=zappp brannigann][quote=Singira]
Leeching...
Thats a fairly clueless statement..

This is not slightly harder, this is nigh impossible..
But funny how you consider it completely safe going 20+ jumps through hostile 0.0 space and attacking a ship many times your size with 20-100 of his allies in local, completely safe..

How about you actually try doing some PvP in any shape or form before making clueless statements about what is risk-free?

You are entitled to your oppinions, however clueless and risk averse they may be.
But I suggest you put your clueless rabble in a "QQ I want concorde in 0.0 while I rat plx" thread..
Just as I am entitled to find it amusing to hunt in this manner, welcome to the sandbox bro...

But yet again, this is not the topic..
I am just wondering when we will see this new AI..


Speaking of clueless and risk averse opinions and rabble.....

Again, sorry it is tougher to collect PVE fit killmails.

Welcome to the sandbox, where you can choose to hunt PVE ships, but you might have to put some effort and planning into killing them instead of warp -> pew pew.


I'll take you on in one of my PvE ships then you get to fly a bomber like I usually do..
Show me how easy it is..
Just convo me ingame and we can set it up..
amurder Hakomairos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-02-21 01:56:28 UTC
Singira wrote:
amurder Hakomairos wrote:
You can have the "new AI" that will never attack you when they change PvE so that we can do it in PvP fit ships. I'm sure there will be crying over that as well.


Im sorry my PvP preferences does not meet the more common standards of beeing brave and pro in a 50-400man blob, and bravely do what the FC tells you..
Im sure I too will learn to be a mindless peon too someday..
Untill then I will just have to make do with the easy stuff like slipping through terribad gatecamps consisting of brave pro pvp'ers who boldly sit on gates for hours waiting for a lonely ship to jump in then bravely slaughtering it 20 vs 1...
Maby I too can learn to bravely run away from even odds aswell, but that is so advanced it will likely take years to master..

Problem with bringing a "proper" PvP ship solo into 0.0 is that you will eventually get blobbed, and it is usually sooner than later..
So I bring one with a cloaking device and jump you when the situation is in my favor..
Why does that make you so sad?
This playstyle really is just the product of blobs, if it is not viable to fly a "real" ship, then you look at other options.

Is it not easier to just pay attention to the game, then you will never get caught ratting, and people like me would never be of any real danger to pro PvP'ers such as the angry people in here...

It is really hilarious how you automatically assume that because I like to hunt ratters, I must then not be able to do anything else..
It is like assuming that ratters only rat because they are incapable of anything else than dumb predictable rats doing the same routine over and over...
Let's not even get started on miners with this train of thought...



I dunno about all that, I'm just saying if you get a free pass on the NPCs not attacking you then I ought to be able to rat in a PvP fit ship to make things fair. After all, you are looking for a good fight, right?
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#33 - 2013-02-21 02:16:06 UTC
amurder Hakomairos wrote:
Singira wrote:
amurder Hakomairos wrote:
You can have the "new AI" that will never attack you when they change PvE so that we can do it in PvP fit ships. I'm sure there will be crying over that as well.


Im sorry my PvP preferences does not meet the more common standards of beeing brave and pro in a 50-400man blob, and bravely do what the FC tells you..
Im sure I too will learn to be a mindless peon too someday..
Untill then I will just have to make do with the easy stuff like slipping through terribad gatecamps consisting of brave pro pvp'ers who boldly sit on gates for hours waiting for a lonely ship to jump in then bravely slaughtering it 20 vs 1...
Maby I too can learn to bravely run away from even odds aswell, but that is so advanced it will likely take years to master..

Problem with bringing a "proper" PvP ship solo into 0.0 is that you will eventually get blobbed, and it is usually sooner than later..
So I bring one with a cloaking device and jump you when the situation is in my favor..
Why does that make you so sad?
This playstyle really is just the product of blobs, if it is not viable to fly a "real" ship, then you look at other options.

Is it not easier to just pay attention to the game, then you will never get caught ratting, and people like me would never be of any real danger to pro PvP'ers such as the angry people in here...

It is really hilarious how you automatically assume that because I like to hunt ratters, I must then not be able to do anything else..
It is like assuming that ratters only rat because they are incapable of anything else than dumb predictable rats doing the same routine over and over...
Let's not even get started on miners with this train of thought...



I dunno about all that, I'm just saying if you get a free pass on the NPCs not attacking you then I ought to be able to rat in a PvP fit ship to make things fair. After all, you are looking for a good fight, right?


You are very able to rat in PvP fit ships..
It is not nearly as profitable tho..
It limits the variety of anomalies if you intend to do them solo, then you will just have to team up with friends and maby even bring logistics..
And I suspect that is where your trouble is, you are too greedy to rat in a PvP ship right?
Because it is not profitable enough for you..

However....

I am not the one you should argue the promised AI with.
Why do you feel like it is up to me how CCP choses to handle the game?
Can I blame you for lack of officerspawns then?
Really I am like I have stated numerous times before merely asking for an estimate on how long till it will be ready..

Why do you feel this need to debate the workings of gamemechanics with me?
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#34 - 2013-02-21 02:23:37 UTC
the change was suposed to make npcing more pvp like, all it did was make pveing safer patch failed.

Failure to agree with this may result in angry war decs to show what real pvp is.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#35 - 2013-02-21 02:28:36 UTC
Lilan Kahn wrote:
the change was suposed to make npcing more pvp like, all it did was make pveing safer patch failed.

Failure to agree with this may result in angry war decs to show what real pvp is.


Quoted for truth.
Vegine
Sphere Foundation
#36 - 2013-02-21 02:50:32 UTC
Lilan Kahn wrote:
the change was suposed to make npcing more pvp like, all it did was make pveing safer patch failed.

Failure to agree with this may result in angry war decs to show what real pvp is.




acutally in this specific case it proves PVE is becoming more dangerous than PVP, and " suppose to make npcing more pvp like" did succeeded splendidly as intended. I mean, how would you explain all those rat destroyed pvp wrecks otherwise Big smile ?



and since now pve has gotten more dangerous than pvp, to show what other people "what pvp means" would require you to PVE all day succeed at it before others would take you seriosly.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#37 - 2013-02-21 02:54:53 UTC
Vegine wrote:
Lilan Kahn wrote:
the change was suposed to make npcing more pvp like, all it did was make pveing safer patch failed.

Failure to agree with this may result in angry war decs to show what real pvp is.




acutally in this specific case it proves PVE is becoming more dangerous than PVP, and " suppose to make npcing more pvp like" did succeeded splendidly as intended. I mean, how would you explain all those rat destroyed pvp wrecks otherwise Big smile ?



and since now pve has gotten more dangerous than pvp, to show what other people "what pvp means" would require you to PVE all day succeed at it before others would take you seriosly.



Don't blame you for using a posting alt in this case.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#38 - 2013-02-21 15:29:03 UTC
Singira wrote:

Don't blame you for using a posting alt in this case.


Your time would be better spent paying attention to red squiggly lines under your terribad spelling than doing opposition research on other posters. How can you expect anyone to respect your opinion when you cannot even spell the word ... not even with software assistance.

You asked for a more specific estimate on when the promised AI changes can be expected. As the horse has now been flogged into a quivering pile of European foodstuff, I think you can safely assume that your request for more precision has been denied. If you are not familiar with CCP's usual answer of "soon" when asked similar questions, then all I can offer you in condolence is the following:

Welcome to Eve, nub.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#39 - 2013-02-21 16:38:46 UTC
I think we can all agree that this thread is closed.

Let the whining "leet" PVP'er go somewhere else.


P.S. I found it increasingly hilarious that after you spend all this time ranting about how your doing "real" PVP, you state that if you attempt to bring a "real" PVP ship, you encounter "real" resistance and you don't like that.


I think you should change your career to suicide ganking in highsec, where you can easily find pray and then gank when your prepared blob free.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#40 - 2013-02-21 18:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Singira
Princess Bride wrote:
Singira wrote:

Don't blame you for using a posting alt in this case.


Your time would be better spent paying attention to red squiggly lines under your terribad spelling than doing opposition research on other posters. How can you expect anyone to respect your opinion when you cannot even spell the word ... not even with software assistance.

You asked for a more specific estimate on when the promised AI changes can be expected. As the horse has now been flogged into a quivering pile of European foodstuff, I think you can safely assume that your request for more precision has been denied. If you are not familiar with CCP's usual answer of "soon" when asked similar questions, then all I can offer you in condolence is the following:

Welcome to Eve, nub.



Well if you didn't notice then 90% of your own post has these red squiggly lines under it.... Roll
So this automated correction is not really working well.
English is not my first language, so what you think of my spelling really could not be less important to me.

This is for you http://goo.gl/fYrfC


Larloch TheAncient wrote:
I think we can all agree that this thread is closed.

Let the whining "leet" PVP'er go somewhere else.


P.S. I found it increasingly hilarious that after you spend all this time ranting about how your doing "real" PVP, you state that if you attempt to bring a "real" PVP ship, you encounter "real" resistance and you don't like that.


I think you should change your career to suicide ganking in highsec, where you can easily find pray and then gank when your prepared blob free.


I did not talk about "real" pvp, that was all of you angry bears..

I did not call myself leet.

I pointed out the flaws in your argument about ratterhunting beeing "risk-free" and easy.

I asked a simple question, and stated I was bored with the other forms of PvP I was now forced to stick to.

But apparently reading and understanding is hard..

Fortunately I just thought of something to pass the time untill the AI is ready.
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