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$$$$$$$$$$$-----Insurance for your HEAD!------- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-02-21 13:35:24 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It facilitates combat. Implant insurance does not.

So it's a NO, from me.


That's because you're not using the t2 variants.
Snake , slave , talon...
Loads of pvp oriented implants.
That would be the implant improving combat.
This thread is about insurance, I find it strange you've forgotten that.

Insurance for ships facilitates combat, insurance for implants does not.
Hope this helps.



Read the opening posts carefully please.
I have and it doesn't change anything.

Insurance for ships facilitates combat, insurance for implants does not.


Let me put your own words in your own mouth

Regarding the comment on ship insurance you stated that
"It facilitates combat."
Now , for insurance for

As we move onto the comment regarding insurance for implants which also covers the implants that improves combat .
"That would be the implant improving combat.
This thread is about insurance, I find it strange you've forgotten that."
Insurance as in aka , insurance for your pod , which in turns is calculated by the value of implants within your head.

Derp derp?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Mag's
Azn Empire
#62 - 2013-02-21 14:05:34 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:


Let me put your own words in your own mouth

Regarding the comment on ship insurance you stated that
"It facilitates combat."
Now , for insurance for

As we move onto the comment regarding insurance for implants which also covers the implants that improves combat .
"That would be the implant improving combat.
This thread is about insurance, I find it strange you've forgotten that."
Insurance as in aka , insurance for your pod , which in turns is calculated by the value of implants within your head.

Derp derp?
There is one problem with your derp, ships are required for combat and insurance facilitates their use in it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-02-21 14:27:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:


Let me put your own words in your own mouth

Regarding the comment on ship insurance you stated that
"It facilitates combat."
Now , for insurance for

As we move onto the comment regarding insurance for implants which also covers the implants that improves combat .
"That would be the implant improving combat.
This thread is about insurance, I find it strange you've forgotten that."
Insurance as in aka , insurance for your pod , which in turns is calculated by the value of implants within your head.

Derp derp?
There is one problem with your derp, ships are required for combat and insurance facilitates their use in it.


And combat implants are essential to high quality PvP, and insurance WILL facilitates their use in it , perhaps even seeing them being used in every day PvP.

Did you even read the post?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Mag's
Azn Empire
#64 - 2013-02-21 15:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:


Let me put your own words in your own mouth

Regarding the comment on ship insurance you stated that
"It facilitates combat."
Now , for insurance for

As we move onto the comment regarding insurance for implants which also covers the implants that improves combat .
"That would be the implant improving combat.
This thread is about insurance, I find it strange you've forgotten that."
Insurance as in aka , insurance for your pod , which in turns is calculated by the value of implants within your head.

Derp derp?
There is one problem with your derp, ships are required for combat and insurance facilitates their use in it.


And combat implants are essential to high quality PvP, and insurance WILL facilitates their use in it , perhaps even seeing them being used in every day PvP.

Did you even read the post?
You may think they are essential, but that doesn't equate to them being required.

Ships on the other hand, are required for combat and therefore CCP have given us insurance to facilitate their use.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-02-21 15:34:41 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:


Let me put your own words in your own mouth

Regarding the comment on ship insurance you stated that
"It facilitates combat."
Now , for insurance for

As we move onto the comment regarding insurance for implants which also covers the implants that improves combat .
"That would be the implant improving combat.
This thread is about insurance, I find it strange you've forgotten that."
Insurance as in aka , insurance for your pod , which in turns is calculated by the value of implants within your head.

Derp derp?
There is one problem with your derp, ships are required for combat and insurance facilitates their use in it.


And combat implants are essential to high quality PvP, and insurance WILL facilitates their use in it , perhaps even seeing them being used in every day PvP.

Did you even read the post?
You may think they are essential, but that doesn't equate to them being required.

Ships on the other hand are required for combat and therefore CCP have given us insurance, to facilitate their use.
Do you even read?


No one said they're essential , what I am saying is .
They long has been a thing of novelty .
Goods for the nobles of PvP , but with the insurance scheme , people would be a lot more willing to spend on those commodities due to the risk being partially transferred to the insurance system.

On a side note ,you have yet to differentiate the difference between insurance for ships and insurance for implants.
Please elaborate your hatred towards the extended coverage of the system.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Mag's
Azn Empire
#66 - 2013-02-21 15:45:37 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:


No one said they're essential , what I am saying is .
They long has been a thing of novelty .
Goods for the nobles of PvP , but with the insurance scheme , people would be a lot more willing to spend on those commodities due to the risk being partially transferred to the insurance system.

On a side note ,you have yet to differentiate the difference between insurance for ships and insurance for implants.
Please elaborate your hatred towards the extended coverage of the system.
You actually said they are essential.

Ivy Romanova wrote:
And combat implants are essential to high quality PvP
You may think they are essential, but that doesn't mean they are required.

Ships are required for combat and CCP have given us insurance to facilitate their use in it.
Implants are not required for combat and are a choice. If you choose to use them, you get the dividends and accept the risk.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-02-21 15:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:


No one said they're essential , what I am saying is .
They long has been a thing of novelty .
Goods for the nobles of PvP , but with the insurance scheme , people would be a lot more willing to spend on those commodities due to the risk being partially transferred to the insurance system.

On a side note ,you have yet to differentiate the difference between insurance for ships and insurance for implants.
Please elaborate your hatred towards the extended coverage of the system.
You actually said they are essential.

Ivy Romanova wrote:
And combat implants are essential to high quality PvP
You may think they are essential, but that doesn't mean they are required.

Ships are required for combat and CCP have given us insurance to facilitate their use in it.
Implants are not required for combat and are a choice. If you choose to use them, you get the dividends and accept the risk.


Note : Essential to "high quality" pvp, not ALL pvp .

Ships are essential to pvp, but as shown by the T2 insurance rate.
The insurance system aims to transfer the risk of normal pvp away from the player so as to encourage them.
As such , to facilitate HIGH quality pvp , CCP should transfer the risk of using Low Grade combat implants so as to encourage people using them.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Mag's
Azn Empire
#68 - 2013-02-21 21:24:44 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:


No one said they're essential , what I am saying is .
They long has been a thing of novelty .
Goods for the nobles of PvP , but with the insurance scheme , people would be a lot more willing to spend on those commodities due to the risk being partially transferred to the insurance system.

On a side note ,you have yet to differentiate the difference between insurance for ships and insurance for implants.
Please elaborate your hatred towards the extended coverage of the system.
You actually said they are essential.

Ivy Romanova wrote:
And combat implants are essential to high quality PvP
You may think they are essential, but that doesn't mean they are required.

Ships are required for combat and CCP have given us insurance to facilitate their use in it.
Implants are not required for combat and are a choice. If you choose to use them, you get the dividends and accept the risk.


Note : Essential to "high quality" pvp, not ALL pvp .

Ships are essential to pvp, but as shown by the T2 insurance rate.
The insurance system aims to transfer the risk of normal pvp away from the player so as to encourage them.
As such , to facilitate HIGH quality pvp , CCP should transfer the risk of using Low Grade combat implants so as to encourage people using them.
I didn't say all PvP. If you think they are essential, then use them.

Essential ≠ required.

Ships are required. Therefore CCP allow us to insure ships, to facilitate combat. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kathern Aurilen
#69 - 2013-02-21 21:28:26 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
aren't pods just fancy SP insurance? so you want insurance for your insurance?

yo dawg, we put some insurance in your insurance?
I wand spinners inside my spinners

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Luc Chastot
#70 - 2013-02-21 22:18:01 UTC
No.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#71 - 2013-02-21 22:26:37 UTC
Agreeing with Mag here.

Implants provide an "edge"... either to training time or combat. But you don't NEED them to participate in combat itself.

How did you Veterans start?
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-22 00:36:50 UTC
A lot of things in EvE aren't essential.
Apparrel , FW , Deadspace mods , ,but are all of which enhance the gameplay depth and diversity in some way or another.
CCP is FAR beyond to catering to what is required and we are now in the GOLDEN age of EvE , where novelty and other accessories expansion is the new norm.
The days of mending the foundation and feeding the young is LONG over.
Its time to move on to thing s that are nice to have.
On a note about ship insurance , did you notice the reimbursement of ship insurance for Drakes were higher than the cost ?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#73 - 2013-02-22 00:44:36 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
A lot of things in EvE aren't essential.
Apparrel , FW , Deadspace mods , ,but are all of which enhance the gameplay depth and diversity in some way or another.


So now you want Deadspace Module insurance?



You cannot fight a ship without a ship. You can fight a ship without implants. See the difference?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-02-22 08:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
A lot of things in EvE aren't essential.
Apparrel , FW , Deadspace mods , ,but are all of which enhance the gameplay depth and diversity in some way or another.


So now you want Deadspace Module insurance?



You cannot fight a ship without a ship. You can fight a ship without implants. See the difference?


Oh god ...
I am starting to think everyone on the forum are less than intelligent.

I am suggesting, insurance for IMPLANTS in general.
Same with ships.
T1 ships are insured closer to their price due to their approximation to mineral price.
However T2 ships have crap insurance in terms of cost of ships/ reimbursement ratios.

The same APPLIES to the implants.
But instead of mineral price , we use the LP store isk price!

And again , why do we need an implant insurance ,extending from just mere ship insurance.
Refer to my last post.

If by the same logic of mere rudimentary needs need to be satisfied , you don't even need ship insurance :P
However , its seen by many as essential to the game.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#75 - 2013-02-22 17:11:51 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
And again , why do we need an implant insurance ,extending from just mere ship insurance.
Refer to my last post.

If by the same logic of mere rudimentary needs need to be satisfied , you don't even need ship insurance :P
However , its seen by many as essential to the game.


Except that you cannot engage in a fight without a ship, so ships are essential to fighting.
Implants have no effect on your ability to engage in a fight, just like deadspace modules, so implants are not essential to fighting.

Essential things get subsidized, non-essential things do not.


And you are suggesting insurance for implants using the rationale that they enhance combat. I was just pointing out that that rationale would logically extend to a deadspace module insurance system.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-02-23 04:01:01 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
And again , why do we need an implant insurance ,extending from just mere ship insurance.
Refer to my last post.

If by the same logic of mere rudimentary needs need to be satisfied , you don't even need ship insurance :P
However , its seen by many as essential to the game.


Except that you cannot engage in a fight without a ship, so ships are essential to fighting.
Implants have no effect on your ability to engage in a fight, just like deadspace modules, so implants are not essential to fighting.

Essential things get subsidized, non-essential things do not.


And you are suggesting insurance for implants using the rationale that they enhance combat. I was just pointing out that that rationale would logically extend to a deadspace module insurance system.


Please refer to earlier regarding how we are long over the "essential" phase

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#77 - 2013-02-23 07:10:36 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Please refer to earlier regarding how we are long over the "essential" phase


We're not, but Ok.

Then you need to demonstrate:
1) How Implants are "essential" to "High Quality PvP"
a)Including a definition of "High Quality PvP" for us to mock
b) and how implants are "essential" to it.
AND
2) How an insurance scheme that would primarily impact the cost of using learning (i.e. non-combat) implants would significantly effect the use of combat implants.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-02-23 11:38:39 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Please refer to earlier regarding how we are long over the "essential" phase


We're not, but Ok.

Then you need to demonstrate:
1) How Implants are "essential" to "High Quality PvP"
a)Including a definition of "High Quality PvP" for us to mock
b) and how implants are "essential" to it.
AND
2) How an insurance scheme that would primarily impact the cost of using learning (i.e. non-combat) implants would significantly effect the use of combat implants.



1a) : High quality PvP : Aka , HIGH STAKE combat involving T2/T3 vessels with a minimum of over 200mil on the line . such as T3 BC and BS and T3 cruisers.
1b) : You need EVERY edge to survive , and when the potential opponents may be years ahead of you in terms of SP , even in a gang , you need that extra advantage.
2) : Implants covers 2 types. Attributes enhancers which can ALSO be combat skills enhancer (aka, slave , snake , etc) , and skill hardwiring implants (aka, zainou , squire, etc) . If we lower the potential losses incurred when you get podded by insuring them . The use of implants would be significantly increased.

Did I answer your question?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#79 - 2013-02-23 22:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ivy Romanova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Please refer to earlier regarding how we are long over the "essential" phase


We're not, but Ok.

Then you need to demonstrate:
1) How Implants are "essential" to "High Quality PvP"
a)Including a definition of "High Quality PvP" for us to mock
b) and how implants are "essential" to it.
AND
2) How an insurance scheme that would primarily impact the cost of using learning (i.e. non-combat) implants would significantly effect the use of combat implants.



1a) : High quality PvP : Aka , HIGH STAKE combat involving T2/T3 vessels with a minimum of over 200mil on the line . such as T3 BC and BS and T3 cruisers.
1b) : You need EVERY edge to survive , and when the potential opponents may be years ahead of you in terms of SP , even in a gang , you need that extra advantage.
2) : Implants covers 2 types. Attributes enhancers which can ALSO be combat skills enhancer (aka, slave , snake , etc) , and skill hardwiring implants (aka, zainou , squire, etc) . If we lower the potential losses incurred when you get podded by insuring them . The use of implants would be significantly increased.

Did I answer your question?


1a) Why in the world would the cost of your ship affect the "Quality" of PvP?
1b) I don't use implants in my expensive ships, and I do fine, so they're clearly not required for using expensive ships.
2) Didn't answer the question. How does heavily subsidizing A increase the usage of less subsidized B?

You're still making a bunch of assertions that you have made no attempt at supporting.

Finally, learn to link properly.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#80 - 2013-02-23 23:42:43 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
1a) : High quality PvP : Aka , HIGH STAKE combat involving T2/T3 vessels with a minimum of over 200mil on the line . such as T3 BC and BS and T3 cruisers.

This entirely subjective. "High quality PvP" for me is where the odds are roughly even, everyone is in ships they are willing to throw at the enemy over and over again (doesn't matter what the are), and the end of the fight leaves both sides unsure of who actually "won" but still congratulating each other.

Ivy Romanova wrote:
1b) : You need EVERY edge to survive , and when the potential opponents may be years ahead of you in terms of SP , even in a gang , you need that extra advantage.

Ohhhhhh... this explains a lot. You're one of THOSE players who believes that overall Skill Points actually matter (hint: they don't and there is no such thing as "catching up" in EVE... all that matters is how well skilled a character is in a specific specialty and how good a person's player skills are).

Edges are "good to have" ... but again, not absolutely necessary to take part in combat. You only need a ship for that.
Beyond this... insurance only provides coverage for T1 ships... not T2... which have an "edge" over T1 ships... again reinforcing the idea of "nice to have but not necessary."


Ivy Romanova wrote:
2) : Implants covers 2 types. Attributes enhancers which can ALSO be combat skills enhancer (aka, slave , snake , etc) , and skill hardwiring implants (aka, zainou , squire, etc) . If we lower the potential losses incurred when you get podded by insuring them . The use of implants would be significantly increased.

And effectively mandate their use in PvP... because, well... you'd be stupid to not have them, insure them, and take part in PvP. Basically, all you've done is "raise the bar" for PvP.

How did you Veterans start?