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pros and cons of renting systems / space
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Zap Zarrap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-02-21 12:42:12 UTC
Andres Talas wrote:
Zap Zarrap wrote:
ok that was good input and it seems to me that renting is a double edged sword-



as it comes to "small corps " alliances cant take sov"

of course they can "take" but
taking and holding aint the same...





Which is why small corps and alliances need to play the metagame and sign up with some entity thats either there or close to the way there.

Now, proving yourself first by moving into faction warfare or NPC Null first and getting on some killboards is a good move, and once you're there, make sure that everyone tries hard to get in all the PvP fleets you can (note theres often to usually cheap-and-useful ships ... if they run AHACs, for example, you might find that Stabber Fleet Issues at ~70m per are acceptable as fleet ships. But if you want to stay in null, put the isk on the line first. If they take Blackbirds and Celestises, or Scythes or Exequors, there is no excuse for not being in fleet).

But yeah, looking at it as a business proposition, you're probably better off finding a nice wormhole, or just blitzing incursions or level 4s in empire. The money in null is good, but its not that much better.



thx for a great response. yeah might be that the cost do not outweigh the benefits. BUT it offers more flexibility when it comes to isk earning. PI, rats, anoms. mining (YUCK)...and if those pesky landlords would allow it.. even moons.

but for that i understand one needs to prove himself to be worthy. althouh i sometimes wonder how many moons for example TEST or the GOONS hold and maintain... this got to bo soo much hassle...
Hrothgar Nilsson
#22 - 2013-02-21 12:58:01 UTC
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-02-21 15:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
I'm not sure what your business goals are, but you should look into a NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) space such as Providence and see if it has what you are looking for. Just a suggestion, not for everyone.

I moved into Providence several months ago and I must say it has a lot to offer small Industrial corps.
RAP ACTION HERO
#24 - 2013-02-21 15:46:16 UTC
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Deklein/RFY-QB
2 bil a month with 10 bil deposit, you may mail me.

vitoc erryday
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#25 - 2013-02-21 16:13:01 UTC
Renting is never good.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#26 - 2013-02-21 16:30:44 UTC
To me, the answer to the question of renting is "maybe, but probably not a great idea personally".

Renting is good for the game. it gets people into null sec who would not otherwise be there. They provide targets for pvp (and the consumption of ships/modules form pvp and somewhat from pve loses drives the economy), minerals and ships and other things for industry etc etc. They can and sometimes do provide a place for a player to "get his feet wet" in real null sec as opposed to npc null. in rare cases renting corps go on to be full members of real alliances..

I've been in several renter alliances. I most cases it was a place to park my pve money making toons while my pvp character is in the "main" alliance (ie, when I was in Raiden, my alts were in Rolling Thunder, when I was in -A- my alts were in AAA Citizens etc). Once, I was totally and wholly in a corp that was in a "second line" (not really "renter") alliance and it was fine, the freedom to fight or not as i chose was VERY cool.

But being a renter can suck magical donkey balls too. So many restrictions (I once got in trouble for ratting in an UNCLAIMED system, I was ticked at that lol). Sometimes renters become nothing but prey for the landlord's allies (who you are NOT blue to) and sometimes the isk landlords want is so stupidly high it actually stunts a corps ability to grow.

All in all I'd say if you're one of those player who don't like "CTAs" and being bossed around, a renter situation where you have some freedom can be a mostly positive experience. It has been for me.
Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-02-21 16:51:51 UTC
Was in an alliance that rented for a while.

We were allowed to drop towers and hold sov in the system but we had issues with diplo. We kept finding ourselves not blue to our landlords and we were never given access to their stations, which was part of the deal. And we were subject to the landlords CTA's, despite that not being part of the deal.

The cost? a carrier a week IIRC.

After getting standings reset and then being attacked by the landlords roams one time too many we packed up and left.
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-02-21 17:14:05 UTC
Pro: You get space in 0.0 for as long as you are useful to your landlords.

Con: You will have nobodies respect, not even from your landlords.
Akira Menoko
Silnare
#29 - 2013-02-21 18:20:08 UTC
About 1.5 - 2 years ago I was part of a corp that rented space from Solar Fleet in Cobalt Edge of the Drone Regions. So my experiences might help you.

Generally speaking, what happens when you rent space is your corp get placed in a renter's alliance. This is done to simply standings, so that every time someone rents space the holder and their allies don't have to add or remove standings. It prevents foul ups with allies not being set blue, but it means only corps can rent space and not an alliance.

What you get, what you pay, and what restrictions and requirements you are subject to depend on who's renting you space. Our rental agreement at the time with Solar Fleet was, in my opinion, one of the best out there. The fee was paid monthly, and the amount was dependent on the security status of the system (lower meant more expensive). The system was a -0.2 system with a fair amount of belts, so I think the rent was between 750 million and 1 billion isk per month with better systems costing 2-4 billion per month I think. We could do whatever we liked in our system (mine, rat, PI, moon mine, install system upgrades) so long as we did not anchor any super capital construction facilities. There were no requirements to to do CTAs or anything beyond pay rent and don't build super capitals. For their part they and their allies had a good bridge network and were consistent with chasing red fleets around and the area was pretty safe, but I doubt they'd really do much to help if a POS got attacked and reinforced.


Zap Zarrap wrote:

I am more looking at it as a business opportunity.

This is a good approach to take so long as you actually do treat it as one. Rent in this case becomes part of your fixed overhead costs and you need a plan to produce enough isk to cover your costs as well as provide a satisfactory profit. When I was in rented space our rented system had an ice belt, which was a good money maker. It easily covered the costs and provided a healthy profit to make staying there worth while.

Other things to consider is stations and logistics. Odds are there won't be a station in your system to dock at and the nearest one may be a few jumps away. So be prepared to live in a POS. Also be prepared to transport your stuff in on your own. The holders leasing the space may provide you with a cyno/bridge network for you to use, but I wouldn't count on it.

Lastly, make sure you have an exit plan. Space gets conquered or you may find your land lords are not quite like you thought. Whatever the reason you will at some point probably have to leave in a hurry. Best be prepared for that too.
Akira Menoko
Silnare
#30 - 2013-02-21 18:26:47 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
I'm not sure what your business goals are, but you should look into a NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) space such as Providence and see if it has what you are looking for. Just a suggestion, not for everyone.

I moved into Providence several months ago and I must say it has a lot to offer small Industrial corps.


Depending on your goals this is a good option. If nothing else it can let you get a feel for nullsec in a rent free environment. Providence has some rules though, so make sure you read up on those before moving over.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#31 - 2013-02-21 18:29:15 UTC
Mire Stoude wrote:
Pro: You get space in 0.0 for as long as you are useful to your landlords.

Con: You will have nobodies respect, not even from your landlords.


When i was a renter getting on average a Machariel BPC or Gist X drop every few days, I spent a long time weeping about the fact that the landlords didn't respect me :) .
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