These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

pros and cons of renting systems / space
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zap Zarrap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-21 09:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zap Zarrap
Hey there

since it is not really feasible for a small corp to try and just "take" sov, i´ve been looking into this renting-thing.

please spare me with the "becoming a pet " or stuff like that.

I am more looking at it as a business opportunity.

If the benefits (from a mere financial standpoint) outweigh the costs, then it might be something worth to look into.

So how does it work actually ?

The corp pays x ISK / week (or month)
and in return

-the corp is set to blue to the sov holders?
-gains access to belts / anoms / whatnot ?
-access to plantes / PI ?

can the renting corp set up towers too ? (of course not the best moons but maybe moons that do make a profit ?)
could the renting corp potentially gain sov other that rented system ??
so what are the to be expected costs ?


does the renting corp have to worry about fleets, cta´s , securing the system ? or do the landlords do that thing ?

thx for clearing this up for me
Nav illus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-21 10:05:53 UTC
You should be asking these questions to potential landlords. They're all different. Most are terrible.

Good luck.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-21 10:19:40 UTC
Renting turns a game into a job.

You're better off gearing for war and joining a sov holding alliance as a contributor rather than as money-crapping space-clutter.
Skorpynekomimi
#4 - 2013-02-21 10:19:48 UTC
From what I understand, you pay through the nose, have HEAVY restrictions on what you can do and what you can anchor in said space, and are basically the landlord's ***** when it comes to following CTAs and gate camping.
If you don't stick to their rules, they pull a CTA on YOU, and wreck your ****. You may not even be blue to them, and thus prone to being blown up by passing fleets.

Economic PVP
Bob Nesta Marley
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-21 10:24:39 UTC
Ey boy some bruddas be ok wit da man be all gimme de swag brudda, but ya know boy, man be man, I and I be all for I and I, seen?

Respect
Zap Zarrap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-02-21 10:24:54 UTC
ouch...


that bad hm ??

aren´t there no positives about it at all ?

I wonder why still corps do it then......
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-21 10:34:27 UTC
They want the benefits of living in null without the hassle of defending their space. Its an attitude that tends to lend itself well to alliances squeezing them for all they are worth, then smashing them.

Space clutter gnawing on your resources your own corp could be exploiting, and paying their lunch money to do it.

If you want in on the bennies of SOV, then establish yourselves as a corp, go learn fleet combat, and join an alliance. Then have fun attacking the neighbors in between frantic isk grinding at the forsaken hubs.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-21 10:38:20 UTC
Small people can't take sov?
egh....


Anyway,
It totally depends who you're renting off.

People I've known in the past have had deals that say things like

"you can rat, do anoms, mine in this 1 system. You can drop pos's but if the landlord wants them later they're coming down. No re-processors on pos's as this is to be done in a station. It's x a month, if you don't pay you will be removed"

Others have just said "it's x a month, rat where you like, no pos's"

As for defense, some landlords will just take your money and get on with their own thing, others will roam about the space and make sure to keep it defended.

There's little to stop the renters banding together in an effort to secure the space for them selves though, bar them being renters and usually just hiding when reds\neuts turn up.

A better option though would be to make some friends and then take a system of little importance to anyone.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-21 10:45:09 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
Renting turns a game into a job.

You're better off gearing for war and joining a sov holding alliance as a contributor rather than as money-crapping space-clutter.

i can't be sure but...

It looks like paying some ISK to landlord looks less than a job.
However "contributing" looks like real job most of a time. I recall requirements "50 kills a month or death" and it doesn't look like party unless you enjoy gatecamping.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
terzho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-02-21 10:57:53 UTC
I hear drone regions is nice this time of year......you should totally rent there ^_^
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-21 11:01:52 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:
Renting turns a game into a job.

You're better off gearing for war and joining a sov holding alliance as a contributor rather than as money-crapping space-clutter.

i can't be sure but...

It looks like paying some ISK to landlord looks less than a job.
However "contributing" looks like real job most of a time. I recall requirements "50 kills a month or death" and it doesn't look like party unless you enjoy gatecamping.


50 kills a month really isn't anything, that's like 1 roam a week
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#12 - 2013-02-21 11:13:02 UTC
GD probably isnt really the place for these questions as any self respecting alliance that provides rental space will not let be spamming their T's & C's here.

Any other opinions you get are going to be those who have been burned (probably due to their own stupidity) or by those who actually have no clue and are purely speculating.

Adding to that speculation, some of the more solid things i've heard about renter alliances are as follows:

Monthly rentals can be substantial (into the billions of isk)
You are not required in any combat fleets (as your probably a liability)
You may be allowed towers
You put up your own POCO's
Forget about the moons
You're corp will more than likely be absorbed into their "citizens" alliance.

Speak to the diplos of the renter alliances. Dont listen to the bitter vets in GD. Play in whatever style pleases you and your corpies.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-02-21 11:21:55 UTC
When you rent you typically get given a system and depending on much much of an ass your landlord is you can either have full access to the system or just ratting and mining.

The lower the sec of the system the more you pay a bil a month at least and thats for a ****** -0.1 gateway from high sec system you'll get visitors in all the time. Up to 10bil a month for a -0.8 or lower system.

The coalition I'm a part of (nulli secunda) is very good about renting space so I'd have a talk with them if you're interested.
Andres Talas
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#14 - 2013-02-21 11:37:49 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
When you rent you typically get given a system and depending on much much of an ass your landlord is you can either have full access to the system or just ratting and mining.

The lower the sec of the system the more you pay a bil a month at least and thats for a ****** -0.1 gateway from high sec system you'll get visitors in all the time. Up to 10bil a month for a -0.8 or lower system.

The coalition I'm a part of (nulli secunda) is very good about renting space so I'd have a talk with them if you're interested.


Just on that, remember that 5b a month would pay for

One carrier,

the fittings on 100 drakes or hurricanes, and

10 stabber fleet issues.

You can see just how much stress that puts on the finances of a corp that is both trying to pay rent, and to keep it's PvPers fighting, and to prepare for being able to contribute to sov warfare.
Zap Zarrap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-21 11:39:35 UTC
ok that was good input and it seems to me that renting is a double edged sword-



as it comes to "small corps " alliances cant take sov"

of course they can "take" but
taking and holding aint the same...
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-02-21 11:40:37 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:
Renting turns a game into a job.

You're better off gearing for war and joining a sov holding alliance as a contributor rather than as money-crapping space-clutter.

i can't be sure but...

It looks like paying some ISK to landlord looks less than a job.
However "contributing" looks like real job most of a time. I recall requirements "50 kills a month or death" and it doesn't look like party unless you enjoy gatecamping.


50 kills a month really isn't anything, that's like 1 roam a week

it depends of something like your living place (how long from nearest non-blue space), from FCs....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Zap Zarrap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-02-21 11:46:59 UTC
Andres Talas wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
When you rent you typically get given a system and depending on much much of an ass your landlord is you can either have full access to the system or just ratting and mining.

The lower the sec of the system the more you pay a bil a month at least and thats for a ****** -0.1 gateway from high sec system you'll get visitors in all the time. Up to 10bil a month for a -0.8 or lower system.

The coalition I'm a part of (nulli secunda) is very good about renting space so I'd have a talk with them if you're interested.


Just on that, remember that 5b a month would pay for

One carrier,

the fittings on 100 drakes or hurricanes, and

10 stabber fleet issues.

You can see just how much stress that puts on the finances of a corp that is both trying to pay rent, and to keep it's PvPers fighting, and to prepare for being able to contribute to sov warfare.



thx for doing the math for me. i totally forgot how to use the market and spreadsheets and a calculator.
nothing personal man, just kidding. no offense.

but of course you are right. a lot of corps have problems paying warfare as it is even without having to pay billions per month for it seems nothing but the permission to dock up, mine , do PI and rat...

although...according to some forum heros a few billions aint that much if you have full access to anoms and rats and time on your hands. :-)
Zap Zarrap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-02-21 11:48:23 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:
Renting turns a game into a job.

You're better off gearing for war and joining a sov holding alliance as a contributor rather than as money-crapping space-clutter.

i can't be sure but...

It looks like paying some ISK to landlord looks less than a job.
However "contributing" looks like real job most of a time. I recall requirements "50 kills a month or death" and it doesn't look like party unless you enjoy gatecamping.


50 kills a month really isn't anything, that's like 1 roam a week

it depends of something like your living place (how long from nearest non-blue space), from FCs....


and the kind of engagements you are in. in fleet battles of 500 vs. 500 then yeah, 50 is a days work.

but when you do 20man roams 50 could be a bit more of a challenge. unless your own losses count into the target numbers :-)
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-21 11:57:09 UTC
Zap Zarrap wrote:
I am more looking at it as a business opportunity.


I think this is the single worse reason to leave hi-sec, and even more so if you are a small corp trying to make it on your own. You need to pay the rent, you are probably going to lose ships, you need move stuff between hi-sec and low-sec, all of which are going to eat away at your profits. At the end of the day you can easily end up making the same or even less isk them you would in hi-sec.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying don't go. It's probably going to be fun and challenging adventure, just don't expect to end up filthy rich.
Andres Talas
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#20 - 2013-02-21 12:16:49 UTC
Zap Zarrap wrote:
ok that was good input and it seems to me that renting is a double edged sword-



as it comes to "small corps " alliances cant take sov"

of course they can "take" but
taking and holding aint the same...





Which is why small corps and alliances need to play the metagame and sign up with some entity thats either there or close to the way there.

Now, proving yourself first by moving into faction warfare or NPC Null first and getting on some killboards is a good move, and once you're there, make sure that everyone tries hard to get in all the PvP fleets you can (note theres often to usually cheap-and-useful ships ... if they run AHACs, for example, you might find that Stabber Fleet Issues at ~70m per are acceptable as fleet ships. But if you want to stay in null, put the isk on the line first. If they take Blackbirds and Celestises, or Scythes or Exequors, there is no excuse for not being in fleet).

But yeah, looking at it as a business proposition, you're probably better off finding a nice wormhole, or just blitzing incursions or level 4s in empire. The money in null is good, but its not that much better.
12Next page