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Diminishing Returns
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Auria McGlennen
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#1 - 2011-10-27 02:20:11 UTC
I have searched this topic and not found many answers, so I apologize for the semi-noobish question. I understand how diminishing returns work but I'm trying to find a simple way to find out when module is no longer giving anything substantial bonus. I know that BCUs can be used up to four times and the fourth is still giving enough of a bonus to be useful, so does that same concept work for just about every other module: four of the same are still giving good bonus, but 5+ isn't worth it? Or is it perhaps on a case by case basis, whereas one module might be useful up to 10 times, but another might only be useful stacking once or twice?

I'm assuming since it's EVE it's probably not as simple as that and there's some nine page long math equation to go into it.. or is there a simpler way?

Thanks for your help in advance & fly safe!

-Auria
Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#2 - 2011-10-27 03:37:35 UTC
stacking is really a personal choice. No right or wrong answer.

Damage mods for example unless I have low slots for days (looking at mach now, would be shield tanked, measn lots of lows to play with) I run 3 max. that be gyro, bcu and mag stab (don't do lasers). Eft's 4 mod fits numbers weren't screaming do this to me. tried them out live and in color on the server and said meh.....I'd like that low slot back for something else. But in my case I am not a die hard all gank, little tank zealot.


Another player will post its 4 damage mods or go home. If it works for them and makes em happy, its all good. If a player is all gank style well then those 4 damage mods are usually needed.

tank mods like resists its not so much your stacking you are worried about, its owrrying about if you are overtanked. Caldari this is a real easy trap to fall into. Slap on resists out the nose and you could be killing mids slots that could be paint or a sebo (if you happen to like firing at targets way the hell out on a raven, could be useful for pvp for pos bash or faster locks if more close range and maybe pve).

try out all your options and see what works for you the tl;dr.


Auria McGlennen
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#3 - 2011-10-27 03:45:48 UTC
More specific question then: Is there an easy way to find out how many tracking computers you can slap on a sniping ship until they're not useful?
Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#4 - 2011-10-27 04:06:21 UTC
answer: eft Google eve fitting tool since this formums searchs still sucks. Its got a thread here somehwere google will find faster lol. Simple program that lets you fit on paper anything you want to try out.


Will show you numbers that reflect what you should be getting from stacking.


Keep in mind howeve that eft is not infallable. It guesses at some calcs CCP has not released or it cna hve errors in the databse it uses. I have seen a few items that have wrong stats. They do good job all in all, for a free app they do better than some apps my company pays big money for tbh lol.



Also remember whats works in eft, may suck ass on the server. Its called being a bad eft warrior. Why I said fly your ships to see whats good for you.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-10-27 05:15:30 UTC
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty

1st module: 100% effective
2nd: 87%
3rd: 57
4th: 28%
5th:10.5
6th:3%

If you have 8 lows.... clearly you don't want to load 6 of them up with all tracking enhancers/gyrostabs/wahtever.
The general rule of thumb is to stop at 3, 4 tops.
By 5... surely there is some other module that will be more useful than an module that only gives 10.5% of its normal bonus.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-10-27 05:46:30 UTC
From whai I have read the usefullness of stacking more than 3 units is dependent on the initial bonus, example stacking a bonus of 5 is worthless after 2 stacking, a bonus of 20 however is still good up to 5. IMO it matters most about the initial bonus.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Kesshisan
#7 - 2011-10-27 08:44:50 UTC
If we're looking at TRACKING ONLY:

A Tracking Enhancer II (Low slow) will give you 9.5% tracking.
A Tracking Computer II (Mid slot) with no script will give you 15% tracking.
A Tracking Computer II (Mid slot) with a tracking script will give you 35% tracking.
A Tracking Diagnostic Subroutine (Rig) will give you +15% tracking.

So if you stick on 3x Tracking Computer IIs with scripts, the 3rd one will give you only a 20% bonus.
If you stick on a 4th Tracking Computer II, with scripts, the 4th one will give you only a 8.75% bonus.

However, an 8.75% bonus is still almost as much as your Tracking Enhancer II grants you before stacking penalties happen. (Of course the Tracking Enhancer II gives you other benefits not listed here.) So a 4th module here may or may not be a bad thing depending on your view of things.


I want to reiterate that the general rule of thumb is to stop at the 3rd of the same module bonus. However, I also want to say that there can be plenty of reasons to go past 3, and even past 4.

For example, for an active shield tanked missile using mission boat, what will you put in your low slot? Usually there are 4 options:

Damage Control II (Limited to one)
Ballistic Control Unit
Power Diagnostic Unit/Reactor Control Unit (depending on the powergrid need)
Cap Flux Coil

If you have plenty of tank via your mids, you won't need the damage control unit. Usually you won't need powergrid either. This leaves BCUs and Cap Flux Coils. A lot of shield tanks don't really need much more cap, so that leaves your lows with only BCUs left over. I've seen fits with 5x BCUs in the lows and that is perfectly okay. Of course the last one grants a minor DPS increase, but if you don't need anything else, stick in more damage.
Dors Venabily
United Starbase Systems
#8 - 2011-10-27 09:05:23 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty

1st module: 100% effective
2nd: 87%
3rd: 57
4th: 28%
5th:10.5
6th:3%

If you have 8 lows.... clearly you don't want to load 6 of them up with all tracking enhancers/gyrostabs/wahtever.
The general rule of thumb is to stop at 3, 4 tops.
By 5... surely there is some other module that will be more useful than an module that only gives 10.5% of its normal bonus.


Following this logic

The lows on Machariel shoule be 3 gyros DCU 3 tracking anhancers

I would call that a ballanced tank damage applied damage boost setup.

Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#9 - 2011-10-27 13:01:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Dors Venabily wrote:
Following this logic

The lows on Machariel shoule be 3 gyros DCU 3 tracking anhancers

I would call that a ballanced tank damage applied damage boost setup.



Indeed, look at incursion fittings....any shield ship with 7/8 lows will have this exact setup. Mega/nmega, mach, vindi, kronos(lol?), navy geddon, bhaalgorn, TFI, paladin, etc...

thhief ghabmoef
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2011-10-27 20:02:48 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Dors Venabily wrote:
Following this logic

The lows on Machariel shoule be 3 gyros DCU 3 tracking anhancers

I would call that a ballanced tank damage applied damage boost setup.



Indeed, look at incursion fittings....any shield ship with 7/8 lows will have this exact setup. Mega/nmega, mach, vindi, kronos(lol?), navy geddon, bhaalgorn, TFI, paladin, etc...


Yup. But for missions there's not much reason for the DCU (missioning drunk with regularity is a good reason though). Might as well slap on the fourth gyro. I run a 3 faction gyro, 1 T2 gyro, 3 TE, T2 burst aerator setup and am quite happy with it. Conveniently, this also allows you to swap out for a bit more tank between missions just by slapping on the suitcase when you need it. But when you don't, why not throw out a touch more damage?