These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Whispers

Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Anslo
Scope Works
#81 - 2013-02-19 19:17:32 UTC
Boy you guys are jack asses. Haven't you ever heard of forgive and forget?

I bet the Amarr are laughing themselves silly at the internal strife you're causing. They don't have to lift a finger. Well done on that.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#82 - 2013-02-19 20:28:54 UTC
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
One could argue that some Ammatar are more enslaved than the other remaining Matari slaves. They are so enslaved that they believe in the causes and ideas that put them in chains. These men and women who have finally thrown off their chains [...]


What ?



In short, Lyn, brainwashed, slaves in their own minds.

I'm sure some people would find it valid while others find it absurd but that doesn't change the fact that the argument could be made for either side. At this point the reality of the situation is convoluted enough for most people that it wouldn't matter if it were true or not.


That could be said for anyone, then... I am not sure to understand what is your point ?

Simon Louvaki wrote:
Kary Franks wrote:

The question remains... The Ammatar who have returned... how do we know they have not taken part in enslaving our kin? We can't. But each and every one of them has benefited from brutal slavery. This fact is not going away no matter how much you attempt you wash it away...


This is just silly. Not every Ammatar was a Holder who owned slaves, and only Holders are permitted in Ammatar/ Empire/Kingdom space were even allowed to own slaves. The ratio between Holder and commoner is going to slanted significantly in favor of the commoner and those who returned are going to be heavily commoner. You might as well declare the entire Cluster has benifited from slavery because they may have bought goods or services from a company that owned or used slaves. Do you not believe innocent until proven guilty?

If your concern is what the greater part of your clansmen will think then its imperative that every able body point out the injustice and blatant prejudice in this matter.


Actually, a lot of the Nefantar that left to the Republic after the Elder attack were part of the elites and the governement. The ones that chose to follow were mostly commoners part of a minority leaning toward either reconciliation or even for the rarest cases a return to their roots.

I unfortunately have no accurate numbers on the matter, but it could very well be that a lot of their ruling members are former Ammatar slave owners, either directly or indirectly.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#83 - 2013-02-19 22:07:08 UTC
This is true, but I'm speaking of the populace as a whole and not specifically those who left the Mandate after the Elder attack. If there is a viable population of Ammatar in the Republic, then its very unlikely they are made up entirely, or even majorly, of former Holders. The vast majority would likely be former slaves (the Starkmanir are unlikely to have been the ONLY Matari slaves used in the Mandate, it would have been entirely impossible to keep it hidden if it were so) and immigrants seeking to reconnect with their former roots.



-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#84 - 2013-02-19 22:35:36 UTC
Knowing Murientor usual rhetorics, I predict that their answer will be in the lines of "they did not oppose it, so they condoned it".
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-02-20 07:57:21 UTC
The point I was trying to make, Lyn Farel, is that it's possible to argue the point and then from there conclude a better response. Instead of shunning the potentially brainwashed or conditioned Nefantar, a more reasonable and obviously more compassionate course of action would be to try and help the Nefantar reclaim their Matari cultural identity.

It's just a possible perspective though and in the end each individual Matari will have to decide for themselves how they will treat their returned kin. I do however feel it is important for people, any people, to be aware of various other perspectives in any given situation, so that is why I've bothered to comment where I may not be welcome.
Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#86 - 2013-02-20 08:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Los Muertas
I have flown with most of you at one point or another, freely given what is mine to the Murientor Tribe to strengthen the cause you fight for, yet more and more I find myself estranged, from friends, from people I have called my allies since being freed from Amarrian bondage. I cannot tell you how much it hurts to have had to hide whom my people are, to have hidden them from you all for fear of the same reprisals that the Tribes feared after the Day of Darkness.

"Never Trust an Ammatar". It would be a good slogan if not for the true underpinnings of what you are saying, which is never Trust a Nefantar. This is the same rhetoric that inspires genocide, the same rhetoric that the Amarr have used to justify all the evil things that they do in God's name. The theory that "these people are less worthy then I am" that allows people to hate, to enslave, to exterminate. You hate a people for a crime that they did not commit , and take injury to something that was not done to you because it makes you feel just,

The thing you ignore in your great quest to purge the unclean from your Republic is that not all Nefantar are Ammatar, that some of us were and are kept in the same bondage as any other tribe and that by your proclimations of hatred, we know that even if we gain freedom for all of our Nefantar kin, we will not be safe within the Republic, that we will flee on captor only to hide in plain sight from the lynch mob. It is truely sad that the only safe haven those of us who have found freedom have is amongst that tribe you call criminals, the Thukkar.

Thesis on Tribal Traditionalism
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#87 - 2013-02-21 05:55:24 UTC
Everyone pretending to be all kissy kissy we are family again, now? How delightful! Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damn if interesting times aren't a savory dish.

Ding dong, the pizza boy is here - and it's my favorite topping!