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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Estimated Price - Please disable it for now.

First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#61 - 2013-02-20 18:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
This value is not, and was never intended to, act as a replacement mechanism for viewing distant markets within game.


Quote:
When you find items with wildly out-of-whack price v. estimate values, I'm stuck trying to figure if it's bad code, or bad implementation of an idea, or if CCP is deliberately trolling the estimates.

Prices are local, estimates ought to be local. Indeed, in other respects, your financial capabilities are range-limited (depending on skills)... So why not the estimates, too?

Wildly out of whack average values merely reflect (accurately) ongoing market maniupulation. This is not an unusual occurance in EvE. Even if your information was from the local market hub, if the manipulation was occuring in that location your results would be just as skewed, if not more so.

If anything, that price being so far off from your average local price tells you that somewhere there is a market well worth investigating. You just need to figure out where it is, and try not to get ripped off in the process.

You need to keep two things in mind.

This data is not only used to give you an idea of how much the item is worth. A number of other game mechanics use this information and need to be a global average as this makes it much more difficult to manipulate the prices in a significant way on most items.

CCP has no way of knowing where you are going to sell those goods, so local pricing would likely cause more hate and discontent from players than the current system by a large margin.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Xearal
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-02-20 18:10:35 UTC
I find the feature to be highly usefull when moving things.. Yes, it's not exactly accurate, but it's not meant to be, it's an estimated price. It gives me a good ballpark figure of what something is worth, for some items, the price will be quite 'out of whack' probably due to small amounts being sold or manipulations going on. For Bulk items, it's a very accurate estimate and gives you a good idea what price to look for to sell it.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?

neo smith
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-02-20 18:15:32 UTC
im also with those that like it .
i find it usefull when out exploring and deciding when to head back to high and sell. better that getting calculator out
Mr Ignitious
Lifeline Industries
Plucky Adventurers
#64 - 2013-02-20 18:27:25 UTC
mechtech wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its the average across EVE, its not ment to be accurate.


They really just should hardcode it in to use the 4-4 price if at all possible.



That would be dumb. While a huge portion of all sales go on in jita and jita has become the player designated main trade hub, CCP has never influenced what systems are trade hubs. Hardcoding in jita as what items is worth means that if we as players ever want to no longer use jita then CCP have wasted their time.

If the estimated value thing wants to be misleading, then let it. Maybe it'll bait some noobs into make a mistake. We didn't need it before, we'll get along just fine ignoring it.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#65 - 2013-02-20 20:05:19 UTC
It should take into account all transaction in the 5 main hub for the last week.

but I guess the cost of it would be too great.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#66 - 2013-02-20 21:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
silens vesica wrote:
Agreed that it's often misleading, sometimes outright false. Dump it for now.

The other day it told me a ~60k piece of loot was worth over a mil. I wish I was making that up. I agree. They should either fix it or get rid of it. The "lowest price in the region" section of the market is almost always wrong too.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-02-20 21:36:16 UTC
Halete wrote:
As said, it's extremely useful in Wormholes. It's much handier to get a rough idea of a price on the fly than to log in a trading alt.


Your head may actually explode when I show you eve-marketdata.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#68 - 2013-02-20 21:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Joran Dravius wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Agreed that it's often misleading, sometimes outright false. Dump it for now.

The other day it told me a ~60k piece of loot was worth over a mil. I wish I was making that up. I agree. They should either fix it or get rid of it. The "lowest price in the region" section of the market is almost always wrong too.

It has just told you that somewhere in EvE that item is or has recently been sold for a significantly higher value than normal (whether thru manipulation or a successful scam, or a simple error)... and you want to throw that information away as broken. It's good information to know, potentially something you could cash in on (or get ripped off by). You are simply misunderstanding what the information represents.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#69 - 2013-02-20 21:42:34 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Halete wrote:
As said, it's extremely useful in Wormholes. It's much handier to get a rough idea of a price on the fly than to log in a trading alt.


Your head may actually explode when I show you eve-marketdata.

This is the sort of tool you should use if you need a detailed analysis of market value, and is an example of using the right tool for the job. The EvE wide average that you are provided with in game in not intended to take the place of a tool like this.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#70 - 2013-02-20 22:02:12 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Agreed that it's often misleading, sometimes outright false. Dump it for now.

The other day it told me a ~60k piece of loot was worth over a mil. I wish I was making that up. I agree. They should either fix it or get rid of it. The "lowest price in the region" section of the market is almost always wrong too.

It has just told you that somewhere in EvE that item is or has recently been sold for a significantly higher value than normal (whether thru manipulation or a successful scam, or a simple error)... and you want to throw that information away as broken. It's good information to know, potentially something you could cash in on (or get ripped off by). You are simply misunderstanding what the information represents.
That piece of 'information' isn't actually information. Its a datum which is of little value absent other information which you probably won't have - Like where that inflated price was paid. In short, it's not data; it's an anecdote.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#71 - 2013-02-20 22:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
A little something for those inclined to post these things...

http://imgur.com/NOTa2Pf


p.s. I'm terrible at flow charts, I know, but not as terrible as this posting...

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.

Remiel Pollard
Arasaka Consolidated
#72 - 2013-02-20 23:04:34 UTC
I find the estimated price feature very useful. If I'm hauling loot, I can check its local market value compared to the estimated price to determine whether or not I sell, reprocess for ore, or take it somewhere else if I can be bothered.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#73 - 2013-02-20 23:10:51 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
A little something for those inclined to post these things...

http://imgur.com/NOTa2Pf


p.s. I'm terrible at flow charts, I know, but not as terrible as this posting...


This is the most informative thing i have even seen on these forums. You sir have won the forums. +100.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-02-20 23:58:33 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:

The estimated price, when you hover over an inventory item, is pretty pointless right now. Many discussions throughout the past have talked about it, and have verified that it isn't working properly.


You're complaining how an estimated price of an item is not an accurate price based on what you determine to be the accurate price?

An estimate is simply a generalized value based on, in this case the price of an item over a period of time and throughout the Eve universe. It should be used to only give you a general idea of an items value, which is exactly what it was intended to be. New players can easily see that an an item they just looted is worth far more isk then what it is currently being bought for in their region, and helps players who do not use 3rd party tools know what the over all value of an item has been on average though the universe, not just their region or just Jita..


Gryphon Infinite wrote:

Please just disable it for now, it literally doesn't do much, and is an annoyance.


You cannot simply ignore the number in the bottom right corner? Does this value being displayed somehow directly affect you're ability to play the game or cause additional steps for you?

Gryphon Infinite wrote:

With more effort, make this price just reflect like the cheapest buy order in the region / constellation / system / etc.


That would be just silly and would make the feature completely useless. The point of the estimated price is so players know what other players have been overall buying or selling the item at over time. Showing prices based on region/system would give far more inaccurate results then the current system. That and you know, if you want to view the regional price just right click > view market data.

I'm guessing this is less of a "This game mechanic is broken and stupid and smells bad" and more about how you're pissed that players are now going out of the regions of space you have buy orders setup for considerably less then the average market value and are unwilling to adapt to how players who are now more informed about the value of the items they are selling.
Bane Veradun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-02-21 00:00:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Its the average across EVE, its not ment to be accurate.


Then it is useless, and therefore needs to be removed until it can become more accurate. If this is not possible, then we can do without it. Eve players have managed pretty well without it before, we'll survive without it.

Hi.

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#76 - 2013-02-21 00:25:10 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
The estimated price, when you hover over an inventory item, is pretty pointless right now. Many discussions throughout the past have talked about it, and have verified that it isn't working properly.

Please just disable it for now, it literally doesn't do much, and is an annoyance.

OR

With more effort, make this price just reflect like the cheapest buy order in the region / constellation / system / etc.

Hope to hear everyone's feedback on this phenomena and my idea.



If you don't like it you know you could always just like, I dunno, ignore it. And then the people who do seem to like it could not ignore it.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#77 - 2013-02-21 00:28:55 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
A little something for those inclined to post these things...

http://imgur.com/NOTa2Pf


p.s. I'm terrible at flow charts, I know, but not as terrible as this posting...

Crap. Time to roll up my tent and go home.

Or not.
Lol

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#78 - 2013-02-21 00:42:28 UTC
Topic moved from General Discussion to Features and Idea forum.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#79 - 2013-02-21 03:42:55 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
It makes far more sense to make it work rather then scrap it.


Just link it to Jita averages. Ta-da! Done.

I mean, that's what we all compare everything to anyway... CCP may as well run with it.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-02-21 05:33:29 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
It makes far more sense to make it work rather then scrap it.


Just link it to Jita averages. Ta-da! Done.

I mean, that's what we all compare everything to anyway... CCP may as well run with it.

You didn't read the thread. We can all tell.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer