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Lowsec / nullsec ratting & stealth bombers
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Wintermute Cnom
#1 - 2011-10-26 03:31:28 UTC
Hi all,

I've been looking for a change of pace in my PvE, right now I'm running L4 missions on a HM Tengu.

I'm thinking of trying out ratting with a Manticore just for fun.

Are there any other covert-ops ships which can do PvE? Can someone give me the pros and cons of low/nullsec ratting?

Thanks a lot! :)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-10-26 04:22:05 UTC
When I get bored I'll go out ratting in Angel space with this thing:
[Hound, 0.0 ratting]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I

'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Bane Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Bane Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Bane Torpedo
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Salvager I

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
[empty rig slot]

Nice and cheap and fun to use.

The Pilgrim is the only other cloaky non-T3 ship I can think of that would do well ratting like that.
Ben Dourion
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-10-26 12:01:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Dourion
All SB can do it in their respective region, i mean topr bonus, like matari SB for angel, amarr SB for blood etc etc

Just dont warp to a belt where yo have NPC assault frig or inties, lot of them scramble you and will kill your SB

Forgot to add, its pretty effective at killing cruiser and up npcs, its not a lot slower than using a BS
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#4 - 2011-10-26 12:27:44 UTC
Ben Dourion wrote:
All SB can do it in their respective region, i mean topr bonus, like matari SB for angel, amarr SB for blood etc etc

Just dont warp to a belt where yo have NPC assault frig or inties, lot of them scramble you and will kill your SB

Forgot to add, its pretty effective at killing cruiser and up npcs, its not a lot slower than using a BS

I was wondering about that too, unguided large missiles, cruiser sized targets, how effective is it - especially as torpedoes don't benefit from Guided Missile Precision?

And is lowsec worth it or is 0.0 better as you have bigger targets, more bounty?
Wintermute Cnom
#5 - 2011-10-26 12:39:46 UTC
Thanks for the replies guys.

Jennifer Starling wrote:

And is lowsec worth it or is 0.0 better as you have bigger targets, more bounty?


Yes, i'd like to know this too.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#6 - 2011-10-26 14:33:22 UTC
Go straight to 0.0, it's not hard to avoid gate camps in a SB unless you do something stupid (the only time I lost a SB was by being a moron and warping to a gate that was 70AU or so away from the rest of the system, so I had no dscan on it, when there were 20+ people in Local). The bounties in 0.0 will be bigger and you'll have more bigger ships (which is what you want in a SB).

As for the different size rats, the rule is to kill destroyers>frigs>cruisers>BC>BSes, or just go for the BSes if you're chaining. If you see a spawn with elite frigs, avoid it like the plague. It's possible to kill them, but it takes a long time since they have better defenses than normal and if they web you, you're dead, since BSes start hitting for much more than 4-6 damage when you're webbed, lol.

As long as you fit a TP, it's not hard to kill most of the rats out there. I fit one TP and with that and my so-so missile skills (most stuff to 3/4) I can kill painted frigs and destroyers in 1-2 volleys most of the time. The best strategy is to warp in at 50km or so from the belts (with decent missile skills you can hit to 50km or more) and then pop the frigs/destroyers as they burn towards you. I find it best to set my default orbit to 40km and tell it to orbit a BS and then right click on it once the small ships are dead and orbit it closer in. Also, make sure you train Covert Ops 4 at least, if not 5, 15% damage bonus per level is HUGE.
Goose99
#7 - 2011-10-26 15:00:13 UTC
It works if you have the extra mids for tps, in other words, the opposite of pvp - Nemesis and Manticore, not Purifer and Hound. Another reason is Angle/Blood rats are much harder to tank in SB, while Serpentis is cake. Go into Goon space with that Nemesis/Manticore and poach away, just cloak up somewhere upon encounter of butthurt in local, and resume when the whine subsides.Cool
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2011-10-26 15:59:10 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
It works if you have the extra mids for tps


What do you mean by that? All a SB needs in the mids for ratting is prop mod, MSE, and TP, which the Hound/Purifier can do fine. What else do you need in the mids? I actually prefer the Hound/Purifier because their three lows means they can fit a MAPC to let them fit a MSE and still have 2 BCUs for more damage. The Nemesis/Manticore might be able to fit another TP to their mids, or maybe a shield resistance amp/hardener, but I believe the extra DPS that the added BCU gives outweighs any bonus you could get from a fourth mid.
McGrits
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-26 18:01:16 UTC
never waste a low slot on power when you dont have to:

[Hound, Base Model]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Salvager I
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

the above works wonders in fw missions, so would work just as well with ratting.

if you dont want to salvage, remove the salvager and nanofiber and put a cross link bolt array in the low slot for even more dps. I would then upgrade the ab to a coreli c type to keep the speed up.
Spineker
#10 - 2011-10-26 18:09:34 UTC
Interesting think I will be Nullsec poaching this weekend. Just because I can. Plus cost is minimal if you get whacked as long as you can kill 20 BS and some BCs before going pop could pay for the entire SB with gear. SOme of those bounties in Null sec get way up there in isk.

So I can fly hound manticore and the gallente I assume Manti needs to find gurista space?

Cool thread I was getting a bit bored this will fix that and who ever knows what hauler or retriever you might find cruising along :)
Goose99
#11 - 2011-10-26 20:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Spineker wrote:
Interesting think I will be Nullsec poaching this weekend. Just because I can. Plus cost is minimal if you get whacked as long as you can kill 20 BS and some BCs before going pop could pay for the entire SB with gear. SOme of those bounties in Null sec get way up there in isk.

So I can fly hound manticore and the gallente I assume Manti needs to find gurista space?

Cool thread I was getting a bit bored this will fix that and who ever knows what hauler or retriever you might find cruising along :)


Guristas are no good, or rather, not the best. Find Serpentis rats, like I mentioned in earlier post. Feel free to skip over posts from all the noobs in thread though.Cool

Don't use hound or purifier, especially hound.
-The big reason is rat choice. Angel rats, and to a less extent Bloods, are harder for SB. TP and neut is bad news.
-Angel frig rats are bad.
-Hound do exp dmg to Angels, but don't have hightened exp resist. Purifier do em dmg to Bloods, but don't have hightened em resist. Resist match is important for frigs, as you don't fit hardeners on them.
-Low on cpu.
-There is extra low, but not enough fittings for a 3rd bcs. Benefits of low slot mods with low/no cpu cost, like nano, are minimal for pve sb.
-Lacks extra mid for 2nd tp, which significantly speeds up ratting. More importantly, it will help with small rats. When you need it, you'll be thankful you had it fitted.

Use Nemesis or Manticore, kill Serpentis rats.
-Serp rats do no dmg at range. Easy to tank and handle.
-Frig rats have larger sig and are slower. Easy to handle if you have to.
-Nemesis do thermal dmg and has high kinetic resists, Manticore do kinetic dmg and has high thermal resists. Good match for Serpentis rats.
-Higher cpu. They have only 2 lows for bcs, but Hound/Purifier has no cpu for 3rd bcs, so no dps loss there.
-Extra mid for 2 tps

Anyone who recommends Hound or Purifier have not ratted all races with all 4 SBs. If they had, they would've realized the huge difference on how they handle toward respective racial rats. Pve is not pvp, get right tools for the job.
Spineker
#12 - 2011-10-26 21:04:29 UTC
Cool the serp em damage does not them more dangerous? Or are they different in Null?

Good post amd since I have a couple manticores dusting up some where will be cheap enough to play
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2011-10-26 21:07:06 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Cool the serp em damage does not them more dangerous? Or are they different in Null?


Serps the world round do therm/kin....
Spineker
#14 - 2011-10-26 21:13:46 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Spineker wrote:
Cool the serp em damage does not them more dangerous? Or are they different in Null?


Serps the world round do therm/kin....



Really I am confusing them with blood huh? I only get those missions like Score and one or two others.
Spineker
#15 - 2011-10-26 21:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Does this look accurate for average? Too think I was wasting em on Serps LMAO Serp/Sansha all look alike P

I forgot all my WC missions are Serp/Gurista LOL

average BS resistances:

...........EM.......EXP......Kin......Therm
Angel.....74,5%..44,7%..55,0%..64,5%
Blood.....44,7%..74,5%..64,5%..55,0%
Guristas.74,5%..64,5%..44,7%..55,0%
Sanshas.44,7%..74,5%..64,5%..55,0%
Serp......64,5%..74,5%..44,7%..55,0%

Found this on damage they inflict not sure if it is all accurate sounds about right.

Angels/Arch Angels: 5.21% EM, 57.78% Explosive, 25.53% Kinetic, 11.48% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 6.65% EM, 46.11% Explosive, 32.59% Kinetic, 14.65% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 21.65%

Blood Raiders/Elder Blood: 52.44% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 47.56% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 52.44% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 47.56% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 0.00%

Guristas/Dire Guristas: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 78.22% Kinetic, 21.78% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 55.00% Kinetic, 45.00% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 61.83%

Sansha/Sansha Loyal: 57.28% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 42.72% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 52.43% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 47.57% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 10.18%


Serpentis: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 37.55% Kinetic, 62.45% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 37.55% Kinetic, 62.45% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 10.18%
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#16 - 2011-10-26 21:28:41 UTC
Spineker wrote:
average BS resistances:

...........EM.......EXP......Kin......Therm
Angel.....74,5%..44,7%..55,0%..64,5%
Blood.....44,7%..74,5%..64,5%..55,0%
Guristas.74,5%..64,5%..44,7%..55,0%
Sanshas.44,7%..74,5%..64,5%..55,0%
Serp......64,5%..74,5%..44,7%..55,0%

Found this on damage they inflict not sure if it is all accurate sounds about right.

Angels/Arch Angels: 5.21% EM, 57.78% Explosive, 25.53% Kinetic, 11.48% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 6.65% EM, 46.11% Explosive, 32.59% Kinetic, 14.65% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 21.65%

Blood Raiders/Elder Blood: 52.44% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 47.56% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 52.44% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 47.56% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 0.00%

Guristas/Dire Guristas: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 78.22% Kinetic, 21.78% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 55.00% Kinetic, 45.00% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 61.83%

Sansha/Sansha Loyal: 57.28% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 42.72% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 52.43% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 0.00% Kinetic, 47.57% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 10.18%


Serpentis: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 37.55% Kinetic, 62.45% Thermal.
Without Missiles: 0.00% EM, 0.00% Explosive, 37.55% Kinetic, 62.45% Thermal.
Percentage from missiles: 10.18%


That looks right to me. Not sure if those figures are for mission rats, belt rats, or both (they are subtly different) but it shouldn't change much of anything. Point is, Serps do mostly thermal gun damage (easily mitigated by transversal) and are weakest to kin (iirc some specific rats are specially hardened against kin and only weak to thermal though, but I believe this only applies in missions).
Spineker
#17 - 2011-10-26 21:41:26 UTC
Yep thanks

For sure going to be trying this sounds fun if nothing else.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#18 - 2011-10-27 07:30:15 UTC
Found this old thread about Serpentis belt rats.
Ben Dourion
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-10-27 11:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Dourion
Regarding Blood raiders, neuts are not a problem since you should not be in neuting range first. If i remember correctly, some of them can neut you upto 30 kms which gives you at least 10 km margin .

The ones that can hurt you are effectively angels since they TP you
Wintermute Cnom
#20 - 2011-10-27 15:17:46 UTC
Thanks for the replies guys, Looks like I'm on the right track on a Manticore. Big smile

Anyone knows how much one could make on nullsec ratting?
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