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Rant: Creating a corp is not your god given right.

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XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#41 - 2013-02-20 18:48:54 UTC
So OP wants noobs to play how he wants to cater to his playstyle? I say let players play how they want. If they want to form their own corp and "try" to make it into something, whether fail or succeed, then I am all in favor of that. Do what you want in the game. Dont expect others to cater to your style.

If you are having an issue finding the type of targets you really want, stop deccing noob corps and try deccing more pvp oriented corps. Showing up in a proteus is not going to get noobs to undock. Show up in something more on their level. Make them think/believe they have a chance. Its like Kil2 said in one of his podcasts, the more they think they have a chance at beating you, the more they are willing to try.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-02-20 18:49:08 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Roime wrote:
Good post. From terrible NPC corp to terrible hisec corp that "does industry PVE exploration PVP nullsec and mining" is the best way to end your EVE career in three terrible weeks.

I feel like I have seen that exact phrase before on like a thousand corps.


Yeah it exists in other MMOs too. If you've no focus then chances are you either don't do anything at all or you just do everything badly.

For what its worth I tell any newbies who ask to join FW, RvB or Eve Uni. And the problem with the first two is
1) muh standings/free Empire travel
2) muh cashflow
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-02-20 18:49:09 UTC
Dig, the sad fact is that you're absolutely right. Unless you intend to wardec someone, the correct choice in highsec is to not be in a corp, or to be in a one man alt corp. Unfortunately, I don't see a solution that doesn't require intervention by CCP.

I remain hopeful that someday that will change, but that's somewhat beyond the scope of this rant.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Josef Djugashvilis
#44 - 2013-02-20 18:49:15 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Whitehound wrote:


If noobs could not make their own noob corp then you would still be stuck in an NPC corp.


Or, alternately, they could join a good corporation and then, once they're competent, start a corp where they mold and guide newbros along with a couple of their experienced friends.

Edit: and yes, I've hopped in and out of corps, sometimes to kill their members, sometimes to engage in other chicanery. There used to be a thing where you could engage part of a wartarget fleet, dock up, change corps and fight a much more bite-sized enemy. But my actual corp I've been with has been The Skunkworks and nothing but for several years now.

Second edit: Also, through wardec and safari I have seen the inside of and tested the structure of hundreds of highsec corps. When I talk about corps failing or being a bad environment I speak from having watched it over and over again most of my eve career.


How does a new player distinguish between a 'good' and a 'bad' corp'?

This is not a signature.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-02-20 18:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
EI Digin wrote:
Veteran players in highsec would rather not join, stick with, and help corps consisting of new players because it gets in the way of their isk making activities. Players in lowsec and null aren't likely to leave their good corps to join yours, and low and null are scary to new players anyways.

Plus the lack of existing corps in highsec, because they are unnecessary, really limits the ability for new players to learn from the leadership experiences of others. And it limits highsec players who want to play with other people because they are stuck with bad leaders like the one in the OP.

There needs to be a good reason why you would want to join and stay in a corp in highsec. Until then you will see the only successful player organizations in highsec be ones with leaders who have worked very hard and for a long time, like EVE University and RvB.

That's not true at all. Plenty of people, including me, joined BNI and i always help noobs when they approach me
with a serious question that needs talking, instead of just a link to the eve-wiki.

Also, low and null aren't scary for new players. Many try it. It's the idiot carebears who discourage people to go there,
not the noobs themselves who get scared. They wouldn't even know why they should be scared, if nobody made it look scary !

I agree, though, that there are a LOT of noobs in highsec corps who don't get taught anything at all !
Every time a new guy asks me something, i ask him why nobody of his corp teaches him anything.
The reason ? Nobody cares! Seriously!
And THAT'S ****** up !
And oddly enough, i'm talking about carebear corps here. The majority of these were carebear ones
who "do everything" and fail after a few months.

The corps that actually help their noobs are mostly combat corps,
because with proper training they can actually become quite a good asset to any corp.

I know that sounds like if i had a bias against carebear corps, but not ALL carebear corps are so ... [insult],
but this just reflects what i get from those people who convo me and need help.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2013-02-20 18:54:13 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
So OP wants noobs to play how he wants to cater to his playstyle? I say let players play how they want. If they want to form their own corp and "try" to make it into something, whether fail or succeed, then I am all in favor of that. Do what you want in the game. Dont expect others to cater to your style.

If you are having an issue finding the type of targets you really want, stop deccing noob corps and try deccing more pvp oriented corps. Showing up in a proteus is not going to get noobs to undock. Show up in something more on their level. Make them think/believe they have a chance. Its like Kil2 said in one of his podcasts, the more they think they have a chance at beating you, the more they are willing to try.


I do also show up in vexors or frigs. And the subtle are of goading a fight from someone does often require shipping down. But at ten-to-one odds, it shouldn't. Any gang that includes a t1 logi cruiser and a blackbird should push me down into the mud and drown me in my own broken dreams, almost no matter what I'm flying when I'm solo.

This rant isn't about goading a fight or superior positioning. This is about newbros being held down in fear and ignorance by ****** leadership.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-02-20 18:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Yuki Shin-Jan wrote:
*sniff* So.. Since I'm new, I am not allowed to create a corp? Not even for me and my alt? *sniff*

That's not a corp, it's tax evasion.

Psychotic Monk wrote:
This rant isn't about goading a fight or superior positioning. This is about newbros being held down in fear and ignorance by ****** leadership.

That's exactly why I donated 100m to Brave Newbies for them to get blown up with. I approve of anything that gets newbies involved in something other than missions and/or mining in high sec. The decent, carebear fearing citizens of Eve have to get to them before bad people corrupt them while they're still at an impressionable age.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-02-20 18:57:39 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

This sounds like a good argument for putting more limits on NPC corps and giving more advantages to player corps.


Well that'd just make more of the noobcorps OP is complaining about spring up.

The thing is veteran players don't operate much in highsec because there's not much NEED to group up in highsec.
Josef Djugashvilis
#49 - 2013-02-20 18:57:42 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
Yuki Shin-Jan wrote:
*sniff* So.. Since I'm new, I am not allowed to create a corp? Not even for me and my alt? *sniff*

That's not a corp, it's tax evasion.


But it can be wardecced, which is usually what the anti-NPC folk usually say they want.

This is not a signature.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#50 - 2013-02-20 18:59:43 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
But it can be wardecced, which is usually what the anti-NPC folk usually say they want.

No one cares about wardeccing your one-man tax-evasion corp because it costs 50 mil to dec it and 2mil to reform it instantly.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2013-02-20 19:00:22 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

How does a new player distinguish between a 'good' and a 'bad' corp'?


That, too, is a hurdle, and I don't have a good pat awnser for that. Being helpful and giving out large quantities of info means nothing if that info is terrible. My solution so far has been to stress test them, but I'm not the one on the inside trying to benefit from those with more experience. At least I've destroyed many ****** ones, which should be an indication that they were terrible.

Not a good solution, but the best one I can provide from where I'm sitting.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-02-20 19:01:27 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:

I do also show up in vexors or frigs. And the subtle are of goading a fight from someone does often require shipping down. But at ten-to-one odds, it shouldn't. Any gang that includes a t1 logi cruiser and a blackbird should push me down into the mud and drown me in my own broken dreams, almost no matter what I'm flying when I'm solo.

This rant isn't about goading a fight or superior positioning. This is about newbros being held down in fear and ignorance by ****** leadership.


Why would you find it unusual that a corp not focused on pvp doesn't know much about pvp?
Whitehound
#53 - 2013-02-20 19:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Brave Newbies are an incredible outfit who I love to death. They're a statistical outlier, though. How many corps have there been that have successfully applied the model Brave Newbies are applying? Dreddit, Goonwaffe and... I think that may be it.

It's a great outfit, but the odds against it being a sustainable model for highsec corps to emulate are astronomical.

What a load of nonsense. You have not done anything to help new corps but only destroyed them. Now you want to proclaim the "new" EVE and how it should be done according to your ideals and to save it from players like you! The only thing you qualify for is the destruction of corps, but most certainly not the creation of them. Lol

You are the most terrible scum in EVE and should not even be allowed to post!!1!!1one

When new corps fail is it not more than Darwinism. It is part of the learning process, it is a part of EVE and players are free to go through it.

What an idiotic game would EVE be if it actually needed vets in every corp in order for them to work and to have fun! It would be a boring game, because many of the vets do not know much about leadership. Some players first need to see the chaos around them before they realize that they are meant to lead. It does not need an all-knowing oracle as a leader and you sure are not one. Do not get your hopes up.

Do not get me wrong, how you choose to play EVE is entirely up to you, but you should not tell others how they shall play it. Instead, you should be glad for how some choose to play EVE. Only because of it can you stand here on your little soap box and hold your little rant.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-02-20 19:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Yuki Shin-Jan wrote:
*sniff* So.. Since I'm new, I am not allowed to create a corp? Not even for me and my alt? *sniff*

That's not a corp, it's tax evasion.


But it can be wardecced, which is usually what the anti-NPC folk usually say they want.

Way to completely miss the point. The thread is about leadership. I was pointing out that leadership isn't an issue in a "corp" where there's nobody to lead, so that corp has nothing to do with this thread.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-02-20 19:02:19 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
This is about newbros being held down in fear and ignorance by ****** leadership.

This is one of the smartest things i've read in weeks and i can only agree,
based on the experience i have from talking with noobs.

It's the same in BNI mostly, although their leaders aren't really responsible for it. It's mostly the vets
who ruin the game for many people from the getgo, by making them mining or running missions.

I have, so far, only converted three people to actually do fun and engaging things and they all
thanked me for pushing them away from boring mining or running missions and showing
them how REAL player interaction works.
Josef Djugashvilis
#56 - 2013-02-20 19:03:27 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
But it can be wardecced, which is usually what the anti-NPC folk usually say they want.

No one cares about wardeccing your one-man tax-evasion corp because it costs 50 mil to dec it and 2mil to reform it instantly.


So, not only is it bad for folk to be in an NPC, but the player corp should have a minimum membership.

How many would you suggest?

This is not a signature.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-02-20 19:08:15 UTC
Takseen wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

This sounds like a good argument for putting more limits on NPC corps and giving more advantages to player corps.


Well that'd just make more of the noobcorps OP is complaining about spring up.

The thing is veteran players don't operate much in highsec because there's not much NEED to group up in highsec.


It'd give people a reason to organize and through sheer numbers expose newibes to more "helpful" older players than the current system would. Veteran players abuse the NPC corp mechanics to make highsec less risky for themselves so they can keep their isk/hr as high as they want.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#58 - 2013-02-20 19:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Whitehound wrote:
For Christ's sake, check OP's corp history. Roll

Holy ****! His 2013 corp history is longer than my whole thing. Shocked
Arec Bardwin
#59 - 2013-02-20 19:12:17 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Rant: Creating a corp is not your god given right.
Quite correct, sir. It's my CCP given rightLol
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-02-20 19:12:30 UTC
The problem is that the NPC corp. Not the protection it offers so much as its membership. Namely risk averse veteran non-pvpers. Who will naturally slant the newbies who get dumped into these NPC corps in the same direction, for all the genuinely helpful advice they offer about modules, fittings and such.

They'd be better off with access to a channel that people who are actually in a corp can also see. I know the game HAS chat channels like this but they're not especially noticeable. So there is a tendency to stay in that NPC corp social bubble.