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Rant: Creating a corp is not your god given right.

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Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-02-20 18:00:09 UTC
So you're three weeks old. Or maybe you're much older, but you're a very narrow human being. You've come to eve from some other MMO where you ran a successful guild and you're a manager where you work. You figure you'll form a corp and take over the world. You don't know much about eve, but your can just wing it, right? So you train racial whateveritis, pay your 5 mil, and form a corp, recruiting whatever fellow rookies you can. You know most corps fail, but that's okay, it's part of the adventure, right?

Wrong. What you're doing is gathering people who, like you, don't know anything. And since you're their CEO, they look up to you for guidance. In the absence of you being able to provide guidance, they will listen to whichever of their fellow newbies provide the loudest guidance.

Given that the common denominator for random people on the internet is very low, what they get told is that they can't start doing any of the actually interesting **** in eve until they have 30 million sp and 10b in their wallet. They're told that everything that puts them into direct competition with other players will cause their face and hands to turn into poisonous scorpions and that they need to mine and grind missions until they grow bored enough of this game to unsubscribe.

And whatever information they are given outside of the realm of shooting plusses is like a forty-thousand man long game of telephone. It's distorted and only tangentially related to the truth to the point that not only is it extremely unhelpful, but it's also a hilarious cargo-cult of successful gameplay. A shockingly large percentage of highsec players don't know aggression mechanics (despite a recent rework meant to make it easier to understand) for this exact reason.

And looking past that, what happens when someone like my friends and I come knocking on your corps front door? In a wardec I find a shockingly large amount of corps won't fight me despite often outnumbering me in local 10-to-1. No, that is not an exaggeration. Someone told them that 10 cruisers or battlecruisers or even frigates cannot successfully fight my Proteus or Navy Mega or whatever I'm flying. In their defense, that's correct if we're talking about mish-mashed monstrosities of fits featuring mixed guns and no point, but if the fits were even remotely like something that should be flown in PvP I'd be murdered every single time.

Look, what I'm saying is that your corp needs competent vets to help protect and guide you, it needs accurate information, it needs support systems for for new guys and it needs methods to protect yourself in the event that your door gets kicked in by sex-crazed maniacs.

And these things aren't actually particularly difficult to put in place. It's something that should be easy for any experienced and intelligent player who hasn't been raised in a culture of ignorance and fear.

So, newbie and/or bad CEOs: stop ruining the newbros. There's incredible things they could be doing right from day one if you didn't insist on being the weights that hold them back for fear that they might lose 25m worth of cruiser. Stop being an albatross around their neck and ruining the game for them and, subsequently, everyone else.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Zack Korth
Livid CO.
#2 - 2013-02-20 18:06:08 UTC
k
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#3 - 2013-02-20 18:08:42 UTC
I disagree.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#4 - 2013-02-20 18:09:22 UTC
I agree.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2013-02-20 18:12:31 UTC
Good post. From terrible NPC corp to terrible hisec corp that "does industry PVE exploration PVP nullsec and mining" is the best way to end your EVE career in three terrible weeks.



.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-02-20 18:14:33 UTC
Words of wisdom.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-02-20 18:15:29 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
So you're three weeks old. Or maybe you're much older, but you're a very narrow human being. You've come to eve from some other MMO where you ran a successful guild and you're a manager where you work. You figure you'll form a corp and take over the world. You don't know much about eve, but your can just wing it, right? So you train racial whateveritis, pay your 5 mil, and form a corp, recruiting whatever fellow rookies you can. You know most corps fail, but that's okay, it's part of the adventure, right?

Wrong. What you're doing is gathering people who, like you, don't know anything. And since you're their CEO, they look up to you for guidance. In the absence of you being able to provide guidance, they will listen to whichever of their fellow newbies provide the loudest guidance.

Given that the common denominator for random people on the internet is very low, what they get told is that they can't start doing any of the actually interesting **** in eve until they have 30 million sp and 10b in their wallet. They're told that everything that puts them into direct competition with other players will cause their face and hands to turn into poisonous scorpions and that they need to mine and grind missions until they grow bored enough of this game to unsubscribe.

And whatever information they are given outside of the realm of shooting plusses is like a forty-thousand man long game of telephone. It's distorted and only tangentially related to the truth to the point that not only is it extremely unhelpful, but it's also a hilarious cargo-cult of successful gameplay. A shockingly large percentage of highsec players don't know aggression mechanics (despite a recent rework meant to make it easier to understand) for this exact reason.

And looking past that, what happens when someone like my friends and I come knocking on your corps front door? In a wardec I find a shockingly large amount of corps won't fight me despite often outnumbering me in local 10-to-1. No, that is not an exaggeration. Someone told them that 10 cruisers or battlecruisers or even frigates cannot successfully fight my Proteus or Navy Mega or whatever I'm flying. In their defense, that's correct if we're talking about mish-mashed monstrosities of fits featuring mixed guns and no point, but if the fits were even remotely like something that should be flown in PvP I'd be murdered every single time.

Look, what I'm saying is that your corp needs competent vets to help protect and guide you, it needs accurate information, it needs support systems for for new guys and it needs methods to protect yourself in the event that your door gets kicked in by sex-crazed maniacs.

And these things aren't actually particularly difficult to put in place. It's something that should be easy for any experienced and intelligent player who hasn't been raised in a culture of ignorance and fear.

So, newbie and/or bad CEOs: stop ruining the newbros. There's incredible things they could be doing right from day one if you didn't insist on being the weights that hold them back for fear that they might lose 25m worth of cruiser. Stop being an albatross around their neck and ruining the game for them and, subsequently, everyone else.


Of course you speak the truth, but that truth will be ignored for one simple reason:

It's just easier to blame others, the environment/game/game makers or life in general than to take responsibility for one's own failures.

How many times have we heard of players coming from other games, not even trying to learn anything about EVE but rather trying to play EVE like it's a normal MMO, failing, then coming here and telling CCP and everyone that the game is the problem?

How many times have we read on here that someone "went to null sec, lost everything and went back to lvl 4 mission running"?

How many times have we seen people who are not at all suited for a sandbox game, a game with non-consensual pvp, a game with a permanent "death penalty" etc etc shout "you need to change the game CCP, you'll get more subs if!!!!"

And on and on. I was a victim of what you're talking about, Monk. by the time I was in a mission running corp and could afford a navy raven, I was so scared of "outside" (of high sec) that I kept telling my self "I'll go to null when I have x amount of skill points".

The ONLY thing that pulled me out of that BS was Faction Warfare (that I joined in on day one) and the null sec guys who came to try it out and eventually took me to null sec with them after we all got tired of FW. Nowadays I still play mostly in null (with alts in high and low and mostly do PVE and I look back and think "man, i was stupid to be afraid in a game".
Whitehound
#8 - 2013-02-20 18:16:33 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
So you're three weeks old. Or maybe you're much older, but you're a very narrow human being. You've come to eve from some other MMO where you ran a successful guild and you're a manager where you work. You figure you'll form a corp and take over the world. You don't know much about eve, but your can just wing it, right? So you train racial whateveritis, pay your 5 mil, and form a corp, recruiting whatever fellow rookies you can. You know most corps fail, but that's okay, it's part of the adventure, right?

Wrong. What you're doing is gathering people who, like you, don't know anything. ...

Oh for the love of God, just STFU.

If noobs could not make their own noob corp then you would still be stuck in an NPC corp.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Yuki Shin-Jan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-20 18:17:35 UTC
*sniff* So.. Since I'm new, I am not allowed to create a corp? Not even for me and my alt? *sniff*

Oh wait! I know! How about as a paying customer It is my CCP given right to utilize any aspect of the game in which I choose at any given time of my choosing.

G'day.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#10 - 2013-02-20 18:19:49 UTC
Didnt realize The Skunkworks was that bad of a corp.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Bort Alexos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-02-20 18:21:22 UTC
Good post. I have played on and off for 5 years or so, always quitting because I join some failcorp that is mute and has no teamwork or activities. Playing this game alone sucks. Finding a strong corp is pretty much essential to enjoying this game, at least in the long run.
Whitehound
#12 - 2013-02-20 18:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
For Christ's sake, check OP's corp history. Roll

Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.16 05:12 to 2013.02.16 06:00.
The Random Tangent [R-TAN] from 2013.02.15 03:40 to 2013.02.16 05:12.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.14 01:00 to 2013.02.15 03:40.
This will only hurt for a second. [HURT-] from 2013.02.13 23:14 to 2013.02.14 01:00.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.13 05:12 to 2013.02.13 23:14.
Project Freelancer II [PFII] from 2013.02.13 00:17 to 2013.02.13 05:12.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.12 07:10 to 2013.02.13 00:17.
The Cutthroat Armada [XTCRX] from 2013.02.12 06:06 to 2013.02.12 07:10.
Shoulda Checked Local [00PS] from 2013.02.11 04:56 to 2013.02.12 06:06.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.09 18:33 to 2013.02.11 04:56.
Lateralus Consortium [LATCO] from 2013.02.09 09:14 to 2013.02.09 18:33.
It Seemed Clever At The Time [CLVR.] from 2013.02.09 00:47 to 2013.02.09 09:14.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.08 20:25 to 2013.02.09 00:47.
12W34 [12W34] from 2013.02.07 19:21 to 2013.02.08 20:25.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.07 18:35 to 2013.02.07 19:21.
United Gallente Pilots [U-G-P] from 2013.02.07 18:30 to 2013.02.07 18:35.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2013.02.07 07:08 to 2013.02.07 18:30.
Semtex Industries [STXIN] from 2013.02.07 07:03 to 2013.02.07 07:08.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.12.30 23:13 to 2013.02.07 07:03.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.12.21 12:38 to 2012.12.30 23:13.
D and Z Industrial Inc [DAZI] from 2012.12.20 20:57 to 2012.12.21 12:38.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.12.20 09:57 to 2012.12.20 20:57.
Ore And Transport Logistics [OATL] from 2012.12.20 00:55 to 2012.12.20 09:57.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.12.19 23:45 to 2012.12.20 00:55.
Shadewalkers [SWBHA] from 2012.12.18 19:15 to 2012.12.19 23:45.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.12.16 07:26 to 2012.12.18 19:15.
Cybernetic Shadow [CYSHD] from 2012.12.16 06:50 to 2012.12.16 07:26.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.12.15 22:28 to 2012.12.16 06:50.
Capital Mission Agency [IACMA] from 2012.12.14 20:39 to 2012.12.15 22:28.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.12.14 19:15 to 2012.12.14 20:39.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.07.23 00:07 to 2012.12.14 19:15.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.07.17 09:10 to 2012.07.23 00:07.
Rabid Squirrels [R4BID] from 2012.07.17 08:51 to 2012.07.17 09:10.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.07.17 02:09 to 2012.07.17 08:51.
Retrievers of Rock Inc [.ROR.] from 2012.07.16 17:06 to 2012.07.17 02:09.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.05.23 18:56 to 2012.07.16 17:06.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.05.22 22:50 to 2012.05.23 18:56.
PsyCorp [PSCO] from 2012.05.22 20:44 to 2012.05.22 22:50.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.05.16 03:36 to 2012.05.22 20:44.
Incursion Defence Initiative [IDEFI] from 2012.05.15 22:25 to 2012.05.16 03:36.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.05.15 18:50 to 2012.05.15 22:25.
Stoic Assembly Lines [STOAL] from 2012.05.15 18:49 to 2012.05.15 18:50.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.29 23:55 to 2012.05.15 18:49.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.29 21:03 to 2012.04.29 23:55.
Renegades of Death (Closed) from 2012.04.29 20:06 to 2012.04.29 21:03.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.29 01:07 to 2012.04.29 20:06.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.29 00:42 to 2012.04.29 01:07.
Industrial Motivated Killers R.P.B [210] from 2012.04.28 22:22 to 2012.04.29 00:42.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.28 06:44 to 2012.04.28 22:22.
Equal Knocks (Closed) from 2012.04.28 05:53 to 2012.04.28 06:44.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.28 05:49 to 2012.04.28 05:53.
EC Riders [EC R] from 2012.04.28 05:11 to 2012.04.28 05:49.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.28 04:11 to 2012.04.28 05:11.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.16 00:11 to 2012.04.28 04:11.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.16 00:03 to 2012.04.16 00:11.
Glory In Death [GIND-] from 2012.04.15 20:57 to 2012.04.16 00:03.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.15 01:32 to 2012.04.15 20:57.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.14 07:14 to 2012.04.15 01:32.
In Accordance with the Prophecy [-AWP-] from 2012.04.13 06:46 to 2012.04.14 07:14.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.13 05:53 to 2012.04.13 06:46.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.12 02:49 to 2012.04.13 05:53.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.12 01:37 to 2012.04.12 02:49.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.10 23:22 to 2012.04.12 01:37.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.10 16:33 to 2012.04.10 23:22.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.09 21:19 to 2012.04.10 16:33.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.09 19:21 to 2012.04.09 21:19.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.08 23:34 to 2012.04.09 19:21.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.07 21:21 to 2012.04.08 23:34.
Eagle Enterprises (Closed) from 2012.04.07 19:50 to 2012.04.07 21:21.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.07 08:32 to 2012.04.07 19:50.
EVE Portal INC [EVE-P] from 2012.04.07 06:01 to 2012.04.07 08:32.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.04 23:41 to 2012.04.07 06:01.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.04.04 10:21 to 2012.04.04 23:41.
Compu-Global-Hyper-Mega-Tech [CGHMT] from 2012.04.03 06:16 to 2012.04.04 10:21.
The Skunkworks [SKNK.] from 2012.04.01 00:06 to 2012.04.03 06:16.
Sebiestor Tribe [S] from 2012.03.31 22:34 to 2012.04.01 00:06.
Sherrein Industries [SRNID] from 2012.03.31 16:37 to 2012.03.31 22:34.

And much more...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-20 18:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychotic Monk
Whitehound wrote:


If noobs could not make their own noob corp then you would still be stuck in an NPC corp.


Or, alternately, they could join a good corporation and then, once they're competent, start a corp where they mold and guide newbros along with a couple of their experienced friends.

Edit: and yes, I've hopped in and out of corps, sometimes to kill their members, sometimes to engage in other chicanery. There used to be a thing where you could engage part of a wartarget fleet, dock up, change corps and fight a much more bite-sized enemy. But my actual corp I've been with has been The Skunkworks and nothing but for several years now.

Second edit: Also, through wardec and safari I have seen the inside of and tested the structure of hundreds of highsec corps. When I talk about corps failing or being a bad environment I speak from having watched it over and over again most of my eve career.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#14 - 2013-02-20 18:23:32 UTC
Key lime pie is delicious.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-02-20 18:24:16 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Psychotic Monk wrote:
So you're three weeks old. Or maybe you're much older, but you're a very narrow human being. You've come to eve from some other MMO where you ran a successful guild and you're a manager where you work. You figure you'll form a corp and take over the world. You don't know much about eve, but your can just wing it, right? So you train racial whateveritis, pay your 5 mil, and form a corp, recruiting whatever fellow rookies you can. You know most corps fail, but that's okay, it's part of the adventure, right?

Wrong. What you're doing is gathering people who, like you, don't know anything. ...

Oh for the love of God, just STFU.

If noobs could not make their own noob corp then you would still be stuck in an NPC corp.

I seriously hope you don't believe what you just said.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#16 - 2013-02-20 18:25:08 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Key lime pie is delicious.

It's not.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Google Voices
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-20 18:26:51 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
So you're three weeks old. Or maybe you're much older, but you're a very narrow human being. You've come to eve from some other MMO where you ran a successful guild and you're a manager where you work. You figure you'll form a corp and take over the world. You don't know much about eve, but your can just wing it, right? So you train racial whateveritis, pay your 5 mil, and form a corp, recruiting whatever fellow rookies you can. You know most corps fail, but that's okay, it's part of the adventure, right?

Wrong. What you're doing is gathering people who, like you, don't know anything. And since you're their CEO, they look up to you for guidance. In the absence of you being able to provide guidance, they will listen to whichever of their fellow newbies provide the loudest guidance.

Given that the common denominator for random people on the internet is very low, what they get told is that they can't start doing any of the actually interesting **** in eve until they have 30 million sp and 10b in their wallet. They're told that everything that puts them into direct competition with other players will cause their face and hands to turn into poisonous scorpions and that they need to mine and grind missions until they grow bored enough of this game to unsubscribe.

And whatever information they are given outside of the realm of shooting plusses is like a forty-thousand man long game of telephone. It's distorted and only tangentially related to the truth to the point that not only is it extremely unhelpful, but it's also a hilarious cargo-cult of successful gameplay. A shockingly large percentage of highsec players don't know aggression mechanics (despite a recent rework meant to make it easier to understand) for this exact reason.

And looking past that, what happens when someone like my friends and I come knocking on your corps front door? In a wardec I find a shockingly large amount of corps won't fight me despite often outnumbering me in local 10-to-1. No, that is not an exaggeration. Someone told them that 10 cruisers or battlecruisers or even frigates cannot successfully fight my Proteus or Navy Mega or whatever I'm flying. In their defense, that's correct if we're talking about mish-mashed monstrosities of fits featuring mixed guns and no point, but if the fits were even remotely like something that should be flown in PvP I'd be murdered every single time.

Look, what I'm saying is that your corp needs competent vets to help protect and guide you, it needs accurate information, it needs support systems for for new guys and it needs methods to protect yourself in the event that your door gets kicked in by sex-crazed maniacs.

And these things aren't actually particularly difficult to put in place. It's something that should be easy for any experienced and intelligent player who hasn't been raised in a culture of ignorance and fear.

So, newbie and/or bad CEOs: stop ruining the newbros. There's incredible things they could be doing right from day one if you didn't insist on being the weights that hold them back for fear that they might lose 25m worth of cruiser. Stop being an albatross around their neck and ruining the game for them and, subsequently, everyone else.



Posting in, I'm a griefer and I hunt noobs for sport, and it's all your fault that you are a noob post....?


"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-20 18:27:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

How many times have we read on here that someone "went to null sec, lost everything and went back to lvl 4 mission running"?



Never, actually. And I've been on these forums way too long.
Nullsec is unappealing because its the playground of the big alliances. Even the residents complain about a lot of its features. Its easily the weakest region of Eve at the moment.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#19 - 2013-02-20 18:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Karl Hobb wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Key lime pie is delicious.

It's not.

HOW COULKD YOU SAY THAT!!11!!1one

Everyone should be issued Key Lime pie with their n00bship. And the pie should fit in the festival launcher.




Edit: I should get an extra slice for thinking of this.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Dessau
The Scope
#20 - 2013-02-20 18:28:30 UTC
I, too, have SB00N set to -2.5 from my scrubcorp where 95% of recruits quit EVE.
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