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House Murder. Organizing for: Amarrian Arms Flight

Author
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-02-20 07:36:30 UTC
I blame faulty text to speech software. I'll correct it. You can go back to being ineffective at pretty much everything.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#22 - 2013-02-20 08:39:28 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Please correct me if I am wrong.


Alizabeth Vea wrote:
I can go back to being ineffective at pretty much everything.


Corrected again!

Katrina Oniseki

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#23 - 2013-02-20 17:11:32 UTC
Nice of you to focus on one tiny detail and miss the overall message, Pilot Vea. If Crow chooses to move forward with this enterprise it will only result in bloodshed. I know that I wouldn't feel very safe if my neighbors, already "converted" to the Amarrian religion and culture, were suddenly also armed and trained by Imperials and I'd have to contemplate how to proactively deal with the new threat. I'd probably just choose to be hyper-vigilant. Others might decide that such a threat on their doorstep to be intolerable and take preemptive action to neutralize it. Neither of these scenarios are conducive to peaceful relations.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#24 - 2013-02-21 08:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Anabella Rella wrote:
Nice of you to focus on one tiny detail and miss the overall message, Pilot Vea. If Crow chooses to move forward with this enterprise it will only result in bloodshed.


True, but there has already been bloodshed and it's not going to stop anytime soon. If we arm the Faithful then we give the Republic the excuse they're looking for to march them all off into the desert for "orderly disposal." If we don't arm them then we've only bought them some time until they can concoct a different excuse to "purge those of unclean bloodlines from the purity of the Six Tribes." Which they will do, eventually - it's only a question of time.

So with one option... you may buy them some time spent living in fear & terror before they are eventually massacred. With the other option they may get a chance to take out a few of their murderers before the end.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-02-21 09:28:31 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Nice of you to focus on one tiny detail and miss the overall message, Pilot Vea. If Crow chooses to move forward with this enterprise it will only result in bloodshed. I know that I wouldn't feel very safe if my neighbors, already "converted" to the Amarrian religion and culture, were suddenly also armed and trained by Imperials and I'd have to contemplate how to proactively deal with the new threat. I'd probably just choose to be hyper-vigilant. Others might decide that such a threat on their doorstep to be intolerable and take preemptive action to neutralize it. Neither of these scenarios are conducive to peaceful relations.


The law is not a tiny detail. I know several instances off hand wherein Caldari Corps gained, or lost, millions due to a misplaced comma, or an 'and' in place of an 'or.' If you want to live in a free society, then you accept everything that comes with it. Or, pass a law that restricts the right of anyone with an Amarrian faith and prove yourselves to be no different from them.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#26 - 2013-02-21 09:46:02 UTC
I believe someone once said, Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. I support your initiative and will make contributions to it when I am able.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#27 - 2013-02-21 17:34:21 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:

True, but there has already been bloodshed and it's not going to stop anytime soon. If we arm the Faithful then we give the Republic the excuse they're looking for to march them all off into the desert for "orderly disposal." If we don't arm them then we've only bought them some time until they can concoct a different excuse to "purge those of unclean bloodlines from the purity of the Six Tribes." Which they will do, eventually - it's only a question of time.

So with one option... you may buy them some time spent living in fear & terror before they are eventually massacred. With the other option they may get a chance to take out a few of their murderers before the end.


I think you're confusing the Republic for somewhere else, pilot. We Matari have never set ourselves up as the "chosen" of mankind or the arbiters of all morality. We've never glassed a planet from orbit in order to prove a point. We've never invaded peaceful planets and enslaved billions of people. We've never rounded up entire groups and marched them off to be murdered because of their beliefs or ethnicity.

Just because you had a bad experience in the Republic (unlike the billions who freely live here or emigrate here) doesn't make the Republic the evil thing you rail against constantly. Your judgements have been emotionally compromised by hatred. In that you're no better than those "bigots and racists" you complain about ad nauseum.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#28 - 2013-02-21 17:57:22 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
I think you're confusing the Republic for somewhere else, pilot. We Matari have never set ourselves up as the "chosen" of mankind or the arbiters of all morality. We've never glassed a planet from orbit in order to prove a point. We've never invaded peaceful planets and enslaved billions of people. We've never rounded up entire groups and marched them off to be murdered because of their beliefs or ethnicity.

Such short memories you Central Empires have.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#29 - 2013-02-21 18:30:36 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
I think you're confusing the Republic for somewhere else, pilot. We Matari have never set ourselves up as the "chosen" of mankind or the arbiters of all morality. We've never glassed a planet from orbit in order to prove a point. We've never invaded peaceful planets and enslaved billions of people. We've never rounded up entire groups and marched them off to be murdered because of their beliefs or ethnicity.

Such short memories you Central Empires have.


To be fair, Natalcya, they never expected us to retain things within living memory.
Tabor Murn
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-02-21 18:36:27 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:


So with one option... you may buy them some time spent living in fear & terror before they are eventually massacred. .


If it is true that such people live in fear & terror in Republic space, they enjoy the freedom to leave. Can the fearful oppressed of the Empire claim the same?

Maybe instead of armaments, Mr. Crow should be distributing InterBus fare.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#31 - 2013-02-21 19:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
It is true, mister Murn. Even if the government and many Minmatar capsuleers are united and respectful of their religion and background, there are many extremists who aren't (like the Murientor Tribe).

I do agree that shuttle fare would be a better option than weapons, since I doubt the latter would even make it past Republic customs. Though it would also require additional money to get started in whatever empire they wished to settle in.
Mensha Khael Crow
House Murder
#32 - 2013-02-21 19:01:08 UTC
Tabor Murn wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:


So with one option... you may buy them some time spent living in fear & terror before they are eventually massacred. .


If it is true that such people live in fear & terror in Republic space, they enjoy the freedom to leave. Can the fearful oppressed of the Empire claim the same?

Maybe instead of armaments, Mr. Crow should be distributing InterBus fare.


Faithful within the Republic also enjoy freedom to choose their religion, as per Republic law. They enjoy the right to self-defence . I am merely seeking to improve their preparedness to defend those rights and freedoms Minmatar Republic affords them. Whether that be against a bigoted mob intent on violating their personal safety for excersicing those rights or a slew of illegal slavers caring one whit who they take in order to profit.

Quite frankly. suggesting that those of Amarrian faith should refrain from excersising their rights because someone might break Republics laws if they do? Unseemly blaming of those who would be the victims of criminals in such a scenario.
Our righteousness is evident in the failures of the heathen, God keep us from falling prey to their weaknesses.
Tabor Murn
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-02-21 19:20:04 UTC
I never claimed anything of the sort Mr. Crow.

I pointed out that the people you are attempting to aid are free to travel elsewhere if they do not like their current environment. A freedom that cannot be claimed by many within the Empire.

Yes they are also free to believe whatever they wish. A freedom that cannot be claimed by any within the Empire. They are also free to arm themselves in self defense. I believe small arms are illegal in the Empire, so that would be another freedom that this supposedly at risk community enjoys in Republic space that similar communities could not claim within the Empire.

Mensha Khael Crow
House Murder
#34 - 2013-02-21 19:35:11 UTC
Tabor Murn wrote:
I never claimed anything of the sort Mr. Crow.

I pointed out that the people you are attempting to aid are free to travel elsewhere if they do not like their current environment. A freedom that cannot be claimed by many within the Empire.

Yes they are also free to believe whatever they wish. A freedom that cannot be claimed by any within the Empire. They are also free to arm themselves in self defense. I believe small arms are illegal in the Empire, so that would be another freedom that this supposedly at risk community enjoys in Republic space that similar communities could not claim within the Empire.



And this charitable event is intended to aid those who choose to live and practice the Amarrian faith within the Republic, as you have agreed is perfectly within their rights under Republic law. Your opinions on the societies of Greater Amarrian Empire are not relevant for this discussion.

Perhaps you could seek your alliances support for these law-abiding inhabitants of the Republic, as I have stated I am not turning away any helpful donations.
Our righteousness is evident in the failures of the heathen, God keep us from falling prey to their weaknesses.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2013-02-21 20:34:37 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Natalcya Katla wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
I think you're confusing the Republic for somewhere else, pilot. We Matari have never set ourselves up as the "chosen" of mankind or the arbiters of all morality. We've never glassed a planet from orbit in order to prove a point. We've never invaded peaceful planets and enslaved billions of people. We've never rounded up entire groups and marched them off to be murdered because of their beliefs or ethnicity.

Such short memories you Central Empires have.


To be fair, Natalcya, they never expected us to retain things within living memory.


It does not only applies to Stain.

Sarum Prime, Kor Azor Prime, Jarizza... For the invading bit, at least, since the enslavement was more akin of a genocide than anything else.

Pots and kettles.
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-02-21 22:49:48 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Natalcya Katla wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
I think you're confusing the Republic for somewhere else, pilot. We Matari have never set ourselves up as the "chosen" of mankind or the arbiters of all morality. We've never glassed a planet from orbit in order to prove a point. We've never invaded peaceful planets and enslaved billions of people. We've never rounded up entire groups and marched them off to be murdered because of their beliefs or ethnicity.

Such short memories you Central Empires have.


To be fair, Natalcya, they never expected us to retain things within living memory.


Killing a Nationite has the same moral implication as stepping on a bug. When the combined empires fought against Nation the first time, they had to glass planets to eliminate an infestation, not to prove a point, as the Amarr did at Starkman Prime.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#37 - 2013-02-21 23:17:57 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Killing a Nationite has the same moral implication as stepping on a bug. When the combined empires fought against Nation the first time, they had to glass planets to eliminate an infestation, not to prove a point, as the Amarr did at Starkman Prime.

Watch the bee calling others bugs.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#38 - 2013-02-22 00:52:47 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
I believe someone once said, Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. I support your initiative and will make contributions to it when I am able.


Huh. Well, she doesn't have the plumbing I had in mind... and she's not on the ground.... but she is a Sebiestor, and so I think it must be Heaven's will that I make good on my second pledge. Best wishes!
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#39 - 2013-02-22 01:14:08 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
I think you're confusing the Republic for somewhere else, pilot.


Actually, no I'm not. You don't read the news much, do you?

"A Brutor Tribe-owned Minmatar refugee settlement in Abudban endured a violent riot last night, during which visiting Starkmanir Sage Uldas Dreeter was killed by anti-theists who were protesting his public services"

"PATOR - The Minmatar People's Theatre's main stage was bombed this morning, only a few short hours after the opening night of controversial play ‘Plantation.’ "

"Pashanai - The Bloody Hands of Matar, one of the most notorious terrorist organizations in New Eden, has come forward to claim responsibility for the massive explosion on a Ministry of War station at Pashanai III earlier today which claimed the lives of just under 5600 people and destroyed several billion ISK's worth of infrastructure."

"Pator – Abel Jarek, the leader of the Salvation Crusade, a movement of former slaves preaching the Amarrian faith, died yesterday during an attack by masked vigilantes in the township he founded for his followers in the Tronhadar Valley region of Matar."

"Illuin - Scope News has just obtained confirmation of the mass-murder of hundreds of municipal and regional government officials and throughout the Minmatar Republic. The assassins, believed to be aligned with the same Minmatar-Thukker strike force invading the Amarr Empire, are allegedly leaving evidence of the victim's complicity with Amarrian intelligence services with each corpse. This "purge", as the attackers have allegedly described, was clearly timed to coincide with the invasion. Police detectives have remarked that the Minmatar-Thukker operation was "flawless", leaving "no opportunity for police forces to react."

"Yulai - *** This is a breaking news story *** Scope News has confirmed that CONCORD Bureau Station in Yulai has been destroyed, and that all rapid-reaction defense capabilities of the police agency have been disabled."


The day that the Amarr decided that brute force conquest of New Eden was no longer our goal was the day that the Republic decided it would become theirs.

Oh, and a bit of historical trivia that you types love to forget: The Amarr Empire never conquered the Minmatar Republic. We conquered the Minmatar Empire. That's right, kids - the Minmatar were once an Empire, same as us. Oh no, truth seeping into skulls... quick, grab the memory erase pills!

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2013-02-22 05:46:22 UTC
I find it deliciously ironic that you quote news articles in one IGS thread while failing completely to comprehend a concurrent IGS thread regarding a news article.
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