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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Nakamata
Mostly Snuggly
#881 - 2013-02-20 08:35:54 UTC
After reading the new changes to the skills i personally don't like the idea of needing capital ship IV, jump drive operation V jump drive cal III and jump fuel con IV. i feel that, that is pushing how i am supposed to fly the ship instead of letting me decide how i want to fly it. I do think that for a super carrier such as an aeon. Also i dont like how on the rorqual and the dreadnought you need tactical weapon reconfig and industral reconfig to fly the ship. i again feel CCP is telling me how to fly my ship and what to do with it. I do understand that that is how it should be flown. Other then that I do like the skill adjustments lowing the requirements the battleships and the adjustment for the freighters. But please CCP don't do that to the carrier, Rorqual, and the Dreadnought please!! Do it to the super carrier!
Schadenfraud
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#882 - 2013-02-20 11:13:42 UTC
Anyone have a link to an updated evemon/evehq for these changes so that I can get things exact?
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#883 - 2013-02-20 12:17:40 UTC
Garai Nolen wrote:


On a similar vein of reducing confusion, any chance on renaming "Capital Ships" and "Capital Industrial Ships" to something like "Capital Spaceship Command" and "Industrial Spaceship Command"? I know those are more verbose but it would make a lot more sense as to where those skills fit in the overall scheme.



Something like this needs to be done. There's no reason to have capital ship skills inconsistent with the new scheme, especially when a simple name change would make it conform.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#884 - 2013-02-20 15:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
One could also consider to make the primary requirement the one to inject the ship skillbook, while the secondary requirement still needs to be fullfilled to actually fly it. That would make it slightly easier on the respecs, since e.g. one could stay on Willpower and Percption (hpoefully one had this to train other ships) to train the BO, HIC etc. skills and then respec later to train the navigation and other requirements for those.

Edit: Nevermind that collides with CCP's messed up plan to let players have different skills to fly a ship after the patch.

.
Ben ReVerT
Vengance Inc.
#885 - 2013-02-20 16:17:21 UTC
There is one thing i want to ask, my alt can fly a freighter, but they dont have the advanced spaceship command to 5. Is the policy still that if you could fly it before, you can fly it now?
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#886 - 2013-02-20 16:19:18 UTC
Ben ReVerT wrote:
There is one thing i want to ask, my alt can fly a freighter, but they dont have the advanced spaceship command to 5. Is the policy still that if you could fly it before, you can fly it now?


Yes.

.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#887 - 2013-02-20 16:31:19 UTC
slightly annoying in a away as a lot of ppl spent time training LONGER for something thats going to give everyone else a A LOT shorter time to train.

Don't we get some sort of compensation for that? fine we get a skillpoint increase, but in terms of lost time and actually gaining anything more, we get nothing.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#888 - 2013-02-20 16:57:23 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
slightly annoying in a away as a lot of ppl spent time training LONGER for something thats going to give everyone else a A LOT shorter time to train.

Don't we get some sort of compensation for that? fine we get a skillpoint increase, but in terms of lost time and actually gaining anything more, we get nothing.



There are those that think that we were able to enjoy the ship already for x days, weeks, month or years. In my eyes this is unrelated though. Even the skillpoint increase is worthless to mention, since we were able to sit in those ships with the skillpoints we had already.

.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#889 - 2013-02-20 18:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Chi'Nane T'Kal
Savira Terrant wrote:
One could also consider to make the primary requirement the one to inject the ship skillbook, while the secondary requirement still needs to be fullfilled to actually fly it. That would make it slightly easier on the respecs, since e.g. one could stay on Willpower and Percption (hpoefully one had this to train other ships) to train the BO, HIC etc. skills and then respec later to train the navigation and other requirements for those.

Edit: Nevermind that collides with CCP's messed up plan to let players have different skills to fly a ship after the patch.


Actually it mostly collides with their 'if you can fly it now..' policy, which might be the main reason for not doing things in a sensible way.

Sadly.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#890 - 2013-02-20 19:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Actually it mostly collides with their 'if you can fly it now..' policy, which might be the main reason for not doing things in a sensible way.

Sadly.


I hear you. Well, while I think the "you can fly it now..." stuff is bull, try to imagine the uproar if they would not do it (god forbid one would have to train a week to be back in one's capital again), or if instead they were to just gift us with the skillpoints needed to live up to it (i would organize the uproar, lol). So I can partly understand why they do it. Though I really wish they would have come up with a way that does not leave a mess in the end.

.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#891 - 2013-02-20 20:30:36 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
One could also consider to make the primary requirement the one to inject the ship skillbook, while the secondary requirement still needs to be fullfilled to actually fly it. That would make it slightly easier on the respecs, since e.g. one could stay on Willpower and Percption (hpoefully one had this to train other ships) to train the BO, HIC etc. skills and then respec later to train the navigation and other requirements for those.

Edit: Nevermind that collides with CCP's messed up plan to let players have different skills to fly a ship after the patch.


Actually it mostly collides with their 'if you can fly it now..' policy, which might be the main reason for not doing things in a sensible way.

Sadly.

Not seeing how doing this as suggested is more sensible unless you thought the prior prerequisite system made no sense either.
Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#892 - 2013-02-20 20:59:40 UTC
It wasn't a snipped quote.


Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Haifisch Zahne wrote:
(ummmm, something weird happens to the edited quote of my original question.)


Nothing weird at all. People just have to be careful when snipping quotes and Fozzie apparently wasn't :).
Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#893 - 2013-02-20 21:05:36 UTC
I think you might want to wipe that smug smile off your face. A lot of die hard fans don't like this -tieracide-cookie-cutter ship-let's make this WoW- attitude that CCP keeps coming back to even after mass cancelations of subscriptions.

Or, I suppose you will laugh all the way to the bank, as the children flock to the latest easy game to master. (Until they too get bored, and leave en mass.)

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mcdebris wrote:
what you gonna do to keep your tier system alive?


We're killing the tier system violently with a smile on our face.
Schadenfraud
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#894 - 2013-02-20 21:17:52 UTC
Haifisch Zahne wrote:
I think you might want to wipe that smug smile off your face. A lot of die hard fans don't like this -tieracide-cookie-cutter ship-let's make this WoW- attitude that CCP keeps coming back to even after mass cancelations of subscriptions.

Or, I suppose you will laugh all the way to the bank, as the children flock to the latest easy game to master. (Until they too get bored, and leave en mass.)

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mcdebris wrote:
what you gonna do to keep your tier system alive?


We're killing the tier system violently with a smile on our face.



Over 50000 people logged in consistently since the first major operation of tiericide is "mass cancellations"?

Eve looks to be in better health than ever and these skill changes are consolidating that. Coupled with the fact that it's getting easier for newbies to get into useful/good ships earlier, there's not a better time to start playing eve, nevermind keep playing.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#895 - 2013-02-20 21:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
One could also consider to make the primary requirement the one to inject the ship skillbook, while the secondary requirement still needs to be fullfilled to actually fly it. That would make it slightly easier on the respecs, since e.g. one could stay on Willpower and Percption (hpoefully one had this to train other ships) to train the BO, HIC etc. skills and then respec later to train the navigation and other requirements for those.

Edit: Nevermind that collides with CCP's messed up plan to let players have different skills to fly a ship after the patch.


Actually it mostly collides with their 'if you can fly it now..' policy, which might be the main reason for not doing things in a sensible way.

Sadly.

Not seeing how doing this as suggested is more sensible unless you thought the prior prerequisite system made no sense either.


No, this suggestion judges neither the old nor the new prereqs, but instead is about enabling us to use a given remap on skills, that have no use to us until we also train the secondary skills (on another remap in the future perhaps).

.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#896 - 2013-02-20 21:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Haifisch Zahne wrote:
I think you might want to wipe that smug smile off your face. A lot of die hard fans don't like this -tieracide-cookie-cutter ship-let's make this WoW- attitude that CCP keeps coming back to even after mass cancelations of subscriptions.

Or, I suppose you will laugh all the way to the bank, as the children flock to the latest easy game to master. (Until they too get bored, and leave en mass.)

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mcdebris wrote:
what you gonna do to keep your tier system alive?


We're killing the tier system violently with a smile on our face.




You should think twice about this before posting stupid things. Tiericide is the last thing to dumb down the game.

If you are talking about the skill changes on the other hand, it would be is a rather unrelated matter to tiericide.

.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#897 - 2013-02-20 22:03:22 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Actually it mostly collides with their 'if you can fly it now..' policy, which might be the main reason for not doing things in a sensible way.

Sadly.


I hear you. Well, while I think the "you can fly it now..." stuff is bull, try to imagine the uproar if they would not do it (god forbid one would have to train a week to be back in one's capital again), or if instead they were to just gift us with the skillpoints needed to live up to it (i would organize the uproar, lol). So I can partly understand why they do it. Though I really wish they would have come up with a way that does not leave a mess in the end.


Yeah, i didn't say it's a decision i can't understand at some level. The implications are just a bit awkward/messy in this case.

I also think, given a grace period, the implementation on ship level could have been pulled off (for instance, it could only be checked on boarding a ship, so super pilots would be somewhat safe). IMO a better system as it allows for better differentiation between ships.
Kal Rok
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#898 - 2013-02-21 01:42:05 UTC
From the dev blog post: "If, for some odd reason, you have Destroyers and/or Battlecruisers skills, but have no Racial Frigate/Cruiser 3 at all, then the skill points will be moved in the free allocation pool when the old skills are removed."

Just want to make sure I understand this. Say I have Min Frig 4/ Min Cruiser 4 and Destroyers/Battlecruisers to 5 and no other racial frig/cruiser skills trained up. Will I end up with a bunch of "free" skill points that would have otherwise gone into racial battlecruisers had I trained those racial frig/cruiser skills?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#899 - 2013-02-21 01:52:16 UTC
Kal Rok wrote:
From the dev blog post: "If, for some odd reason, you have Destroyers and/or Battlecruisers skills, but have no Racial Frigate/Cruiser 3 at all, then the skill points will be moved in the free allocation pool when the old skills are removed."

Just want to make sure I understand this. Say I have Min Frig 4/ Min Cruiser 4 and Destroyers/Battlecruisers to 5 and no other racial frig/cruiser skills trained up. Will I end up with a bunch of "free" skill points that would have otherwise gone into racial battlecruisers had I trained those racial frig/cruiser skills?

No, you would have to have NO racial frig or cruiser skills at 3. Having one, which in your case you do, means you get no free SP.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#900 - 2013-02-21 11:55:12 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
slightly annoying in a away as a lot of ppl spent time training LONGER for something thats going to give everyone else a A LOT shorter time to train.

Don't we get some sort of compensation for that? fine we get a skillpoint increase, but in terms of lost time and actually gaining anything more, we get nothing.


You get the use of the ship before the change.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016