EVE General Discussion

The two ships are so dissimilar as to be quite astounding. The Cane is a gun ship with all of the advantages that it brings. The dual neutralizer setups were quite hard on close range frigates, but were otherwise mostly useless. Notably, if you were in range to be using the neutralizers you were dealing ~700-800 DPS. On the flip side, the Cyclone tops out at about 500 DPS @ 15km and has terrible projection against frigates.

The two are worlds apart.

-Liang

Ed: Now that I've showed you how you're a complete ******* ******, do you want to stop poasting about how stupid you are? That'd be great. Thanks in advance.

Please show me this dual neut fit that applies 600 DPS to small ships.

-Liang

Oh I'm pretty sure I wouldn't leave alive but probably not due to your frig (alone)...

Besides its not the main point of what I'm saying - the cane even post nerf can still do dual web, single neut + turret dps against frigs plenty effectively that wasn't the role that it was getting savaged for.

Oh oh! Seems I struck a nerve with an eve elitist who thinks "Hurr durr, only t3/t2 should be used in pvp!"

I still don't believe that the Cyclone evinces the same behavior that the Hurricane did. I continue to offer you the ability to prove me wrong upon the honourable field of combat. Additionally, the ability to fit two neuts isn't strictly what was talked about - there were a whole host of other issues.

Perhaps you'd like to quote the post you're referencing in full? :)

-Liang

So I take it that you are not interested in proving yourself correct? How about we get real with this and get Chribba to hold 5 billion ISK each?

-Liang

Ed: You know, putting your money where your mouth is and all that.

Alrighty then. I guess you're just not willing to defend your claims about the Cyclone and your honour. Just for the record, though: Heretics honor 1v1s. And your ass was grass. :)

-Liang

Ah. Well, take it from someone who can actually fly the ships in question. They're really not the same - at all. The ability for one to fit dual neuts and the other not is just not the kind of issue you're making it out to be. The Cane is fine - no, really, I promise.

-Liang

Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Forcing boosters to be on-grid is a sloppy and imperfect fix that hurts smaller groups more than larger ones. I say this because larger groups are generally more capable of keeping boosters alive in fleets should they happen to be primaried, and more capable of replacing them on the fly if they still manage to get themselves blown up. As a result we generally keep our command ships on field anyway, often using them as anchor points for the fleet or for logistics.

Smaller groups don't have this luxury and so they need to take steps to keep their boosters safe in order to be competitive. Having an off grid booster would help with this, but they do need to be made much easier to find.

I don't agree with the signature bloom because doing so would increase the damage taken by the ship (more damage from large and XL missiles, easier tracking by large and XL turrets and more damage from fighters and titan turrets).
I'd argue that instead the sensor strength of the ship should be severely cut while links are active. This could lead to problems where the booster gets very easily jammed and as a result can't broadcast targets, but that seems like something CCP could easily fix. I never understood why target broadcasting is limited to targets that can be locked by the broadcasting ship. I think the requirement for broadcasting targets should simply be that the broadcaster and target are on the same grid together.

Boosting T3s could have some subsystem tweaking so that the fleet boosting subsystem is offensive rather than defensive, which would have the effect of rendering T3s unable to give both maximum fleet boosts while fitting a covert ops cloak (since that would require a separate offensive subsystem). The defensive subsystem previously used for fleet boosting would be repurposed, and the offensive subsystem being replaced would be one of the subsystems pretty much nobody ever uses (i.e. that hybrid subsystem on the Tengu, or the drone subsystem on the Legion).

And of course boosting would be disallowed from within a certain distance of POS shields, say, 50 km (with the exception of mining links for obvious reasons, unless changes were also made to the Rorqual that didn't require using the Industrial Core for maximum boosts).

Milton Middleson's post strikes Milton Middleson's credibility for wrecking damage

Milton Middleson's credibility begins to explode