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New ships and modules - what do you think of them ?
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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#41 - 2011-10-27 03:07:00 UTC
The Caldari rail platforms all got a serious boost. The eagle and ferox look like they can fit the largest set of rails and a LSE tank as well - with only one fitting mod. ShockedShocked

A 150mm Rail II fit Cormorant with faction antimatter looks like it can get within 13 DPS of a 280II Arty thrasher with double the optimal.

Goose99
#42 - 2011-10-27 03:16:43 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Caldari rail platforms all got a serious boost. The eagle and ferox look like they can fit the largest set of rails and a LSE tank as well - with only one fitting mod. ShockedShocked

A 150mm Rail II fit Cormorant with faction antimatter looks like it can get within 13 DPS of a 280II Arty thrasher with double the optimal.



It's the volley, not dps...

Yeah, rails still suckRoll
Tefries Lurgoyf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2011-10-27 03:17:09 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:

Where does the simple fact of having more pg and better tank makes you think sutch silly things? sriously?

PS: haven't seen blasters T2 ammo get rid of tracking penalty? -T2 missiles, crystals and projectiles yes...


Its a worse ship with those changes thats why.
The PG is nice, the slot change blows.

Here is the only good oneiros fit currently, pre changes.

[Oneiros]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5


It helps two guards and gets cap from one of them, and is actually pretty useful to field this setup. You get 3 logistics pretty much immune to ECM.

Now show me a Oneiros fit that would have a place in a organized fleet that isnt inferior to the gaurd. You said you wanted to fly a oneiros without being told to get into a guard... Show me a new fit that people would be happy to see in fleet instead of a guard for any reason.
Goose99
#44 - 2011-10-27 03:33:44 UTC
Tefries Lurgoyf wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:

Where does the simple fact of having more pg and better tank makes you think sutch silly things? sriously?

PS: haven't seen blasters T2 ammo get rid of tracking penalty? -T2 missiles, crystals and projectiles yes...


Its a worse ship with those changes thats why.
The PG is nice, the slot change blows.

Here is the only good oneiros fit currently, pre changes.

[Oneiros]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5


It helps two guards and gets cap from one of them, and is actually pretty useful to field this setup. You get 3 logistics pretty much immune to ECM.

Now show me a Oneiros fit that would have a place in a organized fleet that isnt inferior to the gaurd. You said you wanted to fly a oneiros without being told to get into a guard... Show me a new fit that people would be happy to see in fleet instead of a guard for any reason.


What's with all that eccms? Dude, your onerios fails.Lol
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-10-27 03:36:12 UTC
Tefries Lurgoyf wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:

Where does the simple fact of having more pg and better tank makes you think sutch silly things? sriously?

PS: haven't seen blasters T2 ammo get rid of tracking penalty? -T2 missiles, crystals and projectiles yes...


Its a worse ship with those changes thats why.
The PG is nice, the slot change blows.

Here is the only good oneiros fit currently, pre changes.

[Oneiros]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5


It helps two guards and gets cap from one of them, and is actually pretty useful to field this setup. You get 3 logistics pretty much immune to ECM.

Now show me a Oneiros fit that would have a place in a organized fleet that isnt inferior to the gaurd. You said you wanted to fly a oneiros without being told to get into a guard... Show me a new fit that people would be happy to see in fleet instead of a guard for any reason.


Lol, I got bashed hard for linking what is pretty much the same fit (lazy low slots for multiboxing, prob actually would have used faction or c-type eanms given the t2 rigs I used for 4x rr) in the Onieros vs the world thread ...
Tefries Lurgoyf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2011-10-27 03:58:18 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

What's with all that eccms? Dude, your onerios fails.Lol


2 are projected eccms.

You can post a better oneiros fit too :) gohead dont be shy man.
Auria McGlennen
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#47 - 2011-10-27 04:06:04 UTC
Really upset that they didn't touch the Keres and Hyena. Compared to the Amarr and Caldari versions of Electronic Attack Ships these two are pretty scattered bonus wise. A focused bonus for the two mentioned would have been easy, and nice.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-10-27 05:07:16 UTC
people, the gallente arent getting agility buffs, theyre getting agility nerfs. minor speed buffs.

hybrids look like they might work. blasters are still not nearly as competitive as pulses and AC's. hope to see more changes soon.
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-10-27 09:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Sh'inlux
I think it's buffs, actually.

The "agility" stats that are being changed are identical to the Intertia Modifier stats ingame. A higher modifier = better. You'll notice the faster frigates have intertia modifiers of 4 or better, while the Rorq, for example, has an interia modifier of 0,05.

The reason a Stabber is more agile than a Thorax (even though the Thorax has more inertia) is that a Stabber has less mass. So Gallente boats become slightly faster and slightly more agile.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#50 - 2011-10-27 10:35:54 UTC
Tefries Lurgoyf wrote:
Goose99 wrote:

What's with all that eccms? Dude, your onerios fails.Lol


2 are projected eccms.

You can post a better oneiros fit too :) gohead dont be shy man.


For small armor gangs with mandatory MWD, the "Lonely Medic" Oneiros

[Oneiros, Solo Logi Oneiros]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

For larger armor fleets, the "Free of Chains" Oneiros

[Oneiros, Free of Chains]
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

I'm not claiming that it is better than Guardian. But it is a viable alternative that although lacking in ECCM it makes up for it by being independent of chains, thus being able to disengage without endangering logistics energy chain core.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#51 - 2011-10-27 12:21:55 UTC
Not going to start freaking out and posting CCP hate tirades quite yet as all info is subject to change. However I do have to say that the prelim stats on the BC are beyond broken... They have the speed and sig of a large Cruiser however each has 8 turrets/launchers (wtf) and enough range to obsolete many of the current hacs and BC gangs....

Sorry CCP but if you want these ships to be at all balanced they are going to need the speed and sig of a BC, not a cruiser.... As well as 6-7 turrets max. We don't need 1400+ dps ships that fly at 2k/s and cost sub 50mill... Oh yeah, one other tid bit. Why the **** is it easier for a BC to fit a full rack of Highest tier guns when compared to a BS?

As far as the changes to hybrids... Not a bad start. The fitting req changes and increased dmg to rails and tracking to basters should most certainly make a notable difference. I'd still opt for a small increase in either blaster range or damage but these changes are a good start.

Now about the changes to Gallente ships. Speed increase is nice but nothing significant however the nerf to agility is just a ******* slap in the face... I demand an answer CCP... why are these ships being nerfed in such a ridiculous manner?
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#52 - 2011-10-27 12:26:03 UTC
The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better.
Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings).
Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.

so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#53 - 2011-10-27 12:43:32 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better.
Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings).
Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.

so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.


LSE buffer tanks are easy enough to fit on these leaked ships... If anything the increased range, speed, and reduced sig will allow these ships to have greater survivability than many of the current BCs while getting close to 50% more dps...
Bull Eramix
Tir Capital Management Group
#54 - 2011-10-27 12:47:27 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better.
Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings).
Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.

so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.


Are you sure?


From:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Acceleration

"There are two attributes which determine how quickly a ship accelerates; mass and an Inertial Modifiers, both of which can be helped using an Inertia Stabilizer on your ship. The product of mass and the inertia stabilizer values gives the ship's agility which determines how quickly the ship accelerates (and thus how quickly it turns); lower values imply better acceleration and turning speed."


Tech II Inertia Stab from http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Inertia_Stabilizers_II

-20% to Inertia modifier

Within a class you can compare as ships have closer masses. Between classes IM is a 'fudge factor' adjusting the ships mass' to the desired agilities.
Bull Eramix
Tir Capital Management Group
#55 - 2011-10-27 12:47:38 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better.
Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings).
Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.

so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.


Are you sure?


From:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Acceleration

"There are two attributes which determine how quickly a ship accelerates; mass and an Inertial Modifiers, both of which can be helped using an Inertia Stabilizer on your ship. The product of mass and the inertia stabilizer values gives the ship's agility which determines how quickly the ship accelerates (and thus how quickly it turns); lower values imply better acceleration and turning speed."


Tech II Inertia Stab from http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Inertia_Stabilizers_II

-20% to Inertia modifier

Within a class you can compare as ships have closer masses. Between classes IM is a 'fudge factor' adjusting the ships mass' to the desired agilities.
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#56 - 2011-10-27 12:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Alarhun
Lets use the gallente ship as a example - with LSE buffer it has about 24K EHp - that's almost the same as some T1 cruisers. Hardly the equal of a drake or hurricane. If you make the ship tankier than it has about the same HP as a brutix with slightly higher damage (marginally).

Hardly 50% more dps with same tank and greater speed. So please stop fear mongering.

EDIT: Bull Eramix I can't see any of your posts - error parsing BBC code.
Bull Eramix
Tir Capital Management Group
#57 - 2011-10-27 12:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bull Eramix
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better.
Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings).
Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.

so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.


Are you sure?


From:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Acceleration

"There are two attributes which determine how quickly a ship accelerates; mass and an Inertial Modifiers, both of which can be helped using an Inertia Stabilizer on your ship. The product of mass and the inertia stabilizer values gives the ship's agility which determines how quickly the ship accelerates (and thus how quickly it turns); lower values imply better acceleration and turning speed."


Tech II Inertia Stab from:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Inertia_Stabilizers_II

-20% to Inertia modifier

Within a class you can compare as ships have closer masses. Between classes IM is a 'fudge factor' adjusting the ships mass to the desired agilities.
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#58 - 2011-10-27 12:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Alarhun
Compare a thorax to a stabber - thorax has higher IM. but the stabber is more agile - It's due to the increase in mass over stabber. If you look at all the high speed frigates they have IM stats over 4.

EDIT - I realize that fitting I stabs in game brings the modifier down. I 'm looking at it from the info dump perspective where high value = better.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#59 - 2011-10-27 13:09:39 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:


Hardly 50% more dps with same tank and greater speed.


You're the one who said this, not me champ. Never did I say that a Tier 3 is going to have the "same" tank as a lesser tier BC. I said that they will probably have MORE survivability than the lesser tier BC due to significant range, speed, and sig advantages...
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#60 - 2011-10-27 13:14:10 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better.
Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings).
Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.

so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.


LSE buffer tanks are easy enough to fit on these leaked ships... If anything the increased range, speed, and reduced sig will allow these ships to have greater survivability than many of the current BCs while getting close to 50% more dps...


You are the one mentioning LSE buffer.
You are the one mentioning 50% greater dps.