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Latest in a long line of small gang PVP nerfs...
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#1 - 2013-02-20 02:44:36 UTC
Is the textual diarrhea known as "Tiericide"


Ship choice used to matter. Flying something like a Merlin or a Tristan or a Vexor took skill. Only people who knew what they were doing could do it properly in the face of the FotM. Now, all that ship variety we used to have has been reduced to a bunch of different reskins of the exact same ship - just orbit and hit F1. Literally the only "Choice" left is whether we want to hear lasers or projectile sounds.


Now, with Retribution 1.1, CCP nerfed some of the last two effective small gang PVP platforms left in the game: the Drake and the Hurricane. These ships had the right combination of tank and damage that a good pilot could pick off stragglers from a blob. The Cane's loss of a utility high means that it's now incapable of dealing with fast tackle, and the drake flies like a brick now.

And finally, as if the prior changes weren't enough, CCP is planning on nerfing offgrid links. Good luck trying to outmaneuver a blob now.



First off, Tiericide needs to be scaled back. Way back. Make ships interesting and unique again. Instead of making the Maller just a slower Omen, why not just boost its base armor HP to help it be better at the role it was supposed to fill?

Instead of nerfing the Drake and the Cane, bring up other battlecruisers to their level. Give the Harby a major agility buff and maybe we'll see more than two options for small gangs.

Lastly, instead of gutting boosts and making them pointless, give them some sig bloom so they can be scanned down.


Stop listening to your Goon overlords, CCP. Listen to your core small gang PVPers.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2013-02-20 02:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Balance isn't always about buffing things, to match their OP counterparts. That can often mean more imbalance in other areas. Therefore a mixture of buffs and nerfs are ideal.

In other words HTFU.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Hamatitio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-20 02:53:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamatitio
I like what they've done so far, the drake and hurricane were good... A little too good. They stated in the dev blog that they couldn't bring all BCs to the level of the drake and hurricane, because that would make the cruisers they just finished balancing pointless again.

They needed to bring them down a little bit, and I'm personally glad they brought the other ones up.

When was the last time you saw a prophecy in game? And the myrmidon can now field 5 heavy / sentry drones 4, so its actually better than a vexor. edit: in the drone department

Tiericide is good for EVE, it brings more viable ships to the table, and from what I've seen opens up for a variety of fittings, and not the same old setups we've had for 3-4 years now.

Edited for being bad at math and conceding defeat to the obvious myrm flyers out there :)
Bananna Phone
Cellular Modular Interactivodular
EZ. Street
#4 - 2013-02-20 02:54:24 UTC
Whaaaaaaaaaa.....

Quit crying about your hurricane nerf and learn something new.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-02-20 02:55:53 UTC
lol

cane and drake were both ridiculously overpowered

there's actually a reason to use a different BC now

qqqqqqqq eve is hard

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-20 03:03:35 UTC
oh no i have to figure out more then two ships
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#7 - 2013-02-20 03:09:31 UTC
I'd say individualizing them is a step that needs to come after equalling them out through tiericide. Else too much is done at the same time and things get confusing, mistakes are made and everything will take longer than when things are done in controlled iterations.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#8 - 2013-02-20 03:17:59 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Is the textual diarrhea known as "Tiericide"


Ship choice used to matter. Flying something like a Merlin or a Tristan or a Vexor took skill. Only people who knew what they were doing could do it properly in the face of the FotM. Now, all that ship variety we used to have has been reduced to a bunch of different reskins of the exact same ship - just orbit and hit F1. Literally the only "Choice" left is whether we want to hear lasers or projectile sounds.


Now, with Retribution 1.1, CCP nerfed some of the last two effective small gang PVP platforms left in the game: the Drake and the Hurricane. These ships had the right combination of tank and damage that a good pilot could pick off stragglers from a blob. The Cane's loss of a utility high means that it's now incapable of dealing with fast tackle, and the drake flies like a brick now.

And finally, as if the prior changes weren't enough, CCP is planning on nerfing offgrid links. Good luck trying to outmaneuver a blob now.



First off, Tiericide needs to be scaled back. Way back. Make ships interesting and unique again. Instead of making the Maller just a slower Omen, why not just boost its base armor HP to help it be better at the role it was supposed to fill?

Instead of nerfing the Drake and the Cane, bring up other battlecruisers to their level. Give the Harby a major agility buff and maybe we'll see more than two options for small gangs.

Lastly, instead of gutting boosts and making them pointless, give them some sig bloom so they can be scanned down.


Stop listening to your Goon overlords, CCP. Listen to your core small gang PVPers.


So in your eyes the Stabber and Thorax fulfill the same role and thus are completely equivalent?

Interesting.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#9 - 2013-02-20 03:27:35 UTC
As a drone user I got to listen to months of "HTFU" and "fly a Drake or Hurricane, noob" after we all got put out to pasture by the last patch.

Who's laughing now?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#10 - 2013-02-20 03:29:37 UTC
Posting in a stealth "I can't get easy kills anymore" thread.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#11 - 2013-02-20 03:30:33 UTC
PvP snipers , kitter tears .. are best tears

drake Should have been nerfed Long ago ? hurricane ... more nerf needed here don't really call pvp shout things 200km away

So no for OP

And big yes to what you are doing here CCP

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#12 - 2013-02-20 04:03:40 UTC
Tiericide isn't causing me to fly "balanced" ships. It's leading me to fly more ships that have yet to be struck with revision, awaiting their ultimate mothballing of the old and the creation of the new. I haven't flown a BC since Retribution came out.

Actually, I lied. The vexor became bamf after retribution and I use it frequently for lawling. But for hunting WTs I take T3s or faction, because faction hasn't been hit with balance and I want to get the most out of my Loki prior to their own nerf/repurposing.

I imagine I'll cry a little, and then adapt when my faction ships finally get "balanced." If EVE is to last another 10 years, change has to happen. I just might drag my feet along the way.

As a side note, I like the suggestion of boosters having a signature bloom instead of being on grid. There needs to be an added stipulation that they cannot be in a POS to run their boosts though.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#13 - 2013-02-20 04:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with OP. It is absolutely unreasonable for the Drake to be nerfed multiple times. What do CCP think it is, a ****** titan?!

The Drake used to be the perfect balance for small gang PvP and now it is unusable. Couple that with the Tengu being kicked into obsolesence , and the Hurricane becoming a pile of you-know-what, I don't know how solo and small gang PvP will survive.

CCP needs to wake up. Don't nerf things that work well just becuase everything else sucks. Buff the things that suck! For example, like happened to frigates.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-20 04:12:50 UTC
God, where is that annoying whine coming from?

*opens this thread*

Found it, it was the OP, and not a loose serpentine belt. For a second there I thought I would have to take the car into the shop.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2013-02-20 04:20:25 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
As a drone user I got to listen to months of "HTFU" and "fly a Drake or Hurricane, noob" after we all got put out to pasture by the last patch.

Who's laughing now?

Me still.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#16 - 2013-02-20 04:23:20 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with OP. It is absolutely unreasonable for the Drake to be nerfed multiple times. What do CCP think it is, a ****** titan?!

The Drake used to be the perfect balance for small gang PvP and now it is unusable. Couple that with the Tengu being kicked into obsolesence , and the Hurricane becoming a pile of you-know-what, I don't know how solo and small gang PvP will survive.

CCP needs to wake up. Don't nerf things that work well just becuase everything else sucks. Buff the things that suck! For example, like happened to frigates.


Why were the Drake, Tengu, and Hurricane the only small gang PvP ships?

BAZINGA. Trick question. Got you. They aren't the only small gang ships. Plenty of people run small gangs with other ships in their fleets as well.

I think part of the purpose behind balancing them is to remove the stigma that certain ships are the only ones to use for small gang/large gang/random gang warfare and to allow for a greater spread. I may not fly a hurricane since retribution (buffer armor canes are crap/less cool now) but I still fly ships. Adapt or give me your stuff?

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#17 - 2013-02-20 04:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
There is only one thing that the OP mentioned that I agree with. His idea about off grid boosting and bloom is actually kind of cool. Though I also agree with an added comment by somebody else that there needs to be a stipulation that the booster can't be taking refuge behind pos shields.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#18 - 2013-02-20 04:25:27 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
As a drone user I got to listen to months of "HTFU" and "fly a Drake or Hurricane, noob" after we all got put out to pasture by the last patch.

Who's laughing now?


Who let the PVE'r in here? Why are you comparing apples to oranges?

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Ckra Trald
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-20 04:27:16 UTC
two ships get nerfed

all battle cruisers are worthless and im going to unsub

http://www.rusemen.com/ Join Tengoo xd
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#20 - 2013-02-20 04:33:19 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with OP. It is absolutely unreasonable for the Drake to be nerfed multiple times. What do CCP think it is, a ****** titan?!

The Drake used to be the perfect balance for small gang PvP and now it is unusable. Couple that with the Tengu being kicked into obsolesence , and the Hurricane becoming a pile of you-know-what, I don't know how solo and small gang PvP will survive.

CCP needs to wake up. Don't nerf things that work well just becuase everything else sucks. Buff the things that suck! For example, like happened to frigates.


Why were the Drake, Tengu, and Hurricane the only small gang PvP ships?

BAZINGA. Trick question. Got you. They aren't the only small gang ships. Plenty of people run small gangs with other ships in their fleets as well.

I think part of the purpose behind balancing them is to remove the stigma that certain ships are the only ones to use for small gang/large gang/random gang warfare and to allow for a greater spread. I may not fly a hurricane since retribution (buffer armor canes are crap/less cool now) but I still fly ships. Adapt or give me your stuff?

What are you going to small gang roam in? Feroxes? Please.

Don't make me go into the pile of garbage that passes for "working ships" these days. It's all "approach, push F1" or "orbit, push F1". Carebears might whine about PvE getting to be "more like" PvP, but it's really PvP that is turning into PvE. If you like these changes, you probably should just go run some level 4's. You'll find that fun.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
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