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The Rattlesnake
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Junko Eullon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-08 01:10:58 UTC
Hey there.

In advance, i'd like to say sorry for the long post.

I'm a relatively new player, and i'm currently caught up on the thought of aquiring a Rattlesnake, because it just seems so wonderful. So far, i have dumped about 2,5m SP in Drones and always flown a drone ship, like the Myrmidon i'm flying now, but i've always loved the missiles and torpedos the Caldari have, PLUS i've always played the 'tanky class' in whatever i've played, so when i saw the Rattlesnake, you can imagine my excitement since it pretty much fits all of the above criteria.

Now, my question is if it's actually viable anymore. I've done a fair bit of researching and looking up on the internet to try and find out, and while a lot of posts talked about excellent passive shielding and fair afk missioning, nearly all of the posts were before the recent AI changes. So with NPCs now being much more agressive towards drones, and more inclined to change targets on a whim, is it still a ship worth sailing? I don't care much for the speed of the missions or the profit i'll be making from them if i'm quite honest. I just don't want to have to buy 4 new T2 drones every time i go on a mission.

I am mostly running solo missions in high-sec (yes i'm a paranoid carebear, deal with it), but the corp i am a member of is starting to do a lot more group missioning, which i would like to take part in.

All of the above taken into account, is it viable for me to aquire a Rattlesnake?


TLDR; I like drones, I like missiles, I like tanking, my corp is starting some Fleet L4 missions soon. Is it viable for me to get a Rattlesnake with the recent AI changes, or is it just all-round poo?
Frothgar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-08 01:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Frothgar
Well from a PvP perspective T2 Curators (Amarr Sentry drones) track amazingly well and do very solid DPS. I would think with drone damage mods they would be more than sufficient for PvE missions. I rarely have issues losing them since you can just scoop and redeploy the second a sentry takes any damage.

Also with a rattler you wouldn't need a corp for Lvl4s. Run a few mission specific hardeners and get some purgers on it and that thing will tank like a monster.

If you're having trouble hitting things, perhaps painters.

Its also worth saying that mission running corps are potentially a huge liability. People like me do their best to infiltrate them, since your corp members can waste you consequence free in highsec ^_^
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-08 01:52:45 UTC
It has become a question of micromanagement. Do you want to manage one weapon system or two weapon systems?

I mission with ravens, navy ravens and navy scorpions. Since drones are nearly useless to me now, I kill pretty much everything with cruise missiles. So. I only have to manage one weapon system.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Frothgar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-08 01:56:27 UTC
Its worth mentioning, Javelan torp golems were great prior to TNP effecting torps patch, now they're just amazing.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#5 - 2013-02-08 03:50:52 UTC
Pretty sure you can just fit a large shield transfer and rep your sentries but I haven't tested this
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-08 04:36:14 UTC
It's still used and still one of my favorite mission running ships. Investing training in its damage potential can make all the difference in the world now however, between annihilating most rats before they become a large threat to your drones and having a lot of micromanaging to do. Since you mentioned fleet missioning it's worth noting that that also helps reduce drone aggro as well.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#7 - 2013-02-08 07:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
Posted this in another thread yesterday:

[Rattlesnake, Feeling Lazy]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I


Only use an afterburner for travelling between Acc gates otherwise put another OTL on there. If u feel its to tanky just take away some tank for more DPS. If u are looking to clear missions from rats this is an awesome fit. Droneboats are just as easy to manage as before the AI change. Atleast for missions. You just cant completely AFK them anymore. I havent used anything that clears rooms faster than this.
Junko Eullon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-09 02:33:11 UTC
Thanks for the feedback guys :) Appreciate it!
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-02-09 12:15:13 UTC
With sentries, recalling drones is easy, I don't have t2 sentries, yet, I use the navy issue ones - they have a lot of EHP, easy to keep alive if you dont wander away from them (expensive to replace if you do...)

However, the missile damage is pathetic - for most uses I prefer the navy Dominix - 7.5 effective turrets vs 4 launchers....

By switching fits between shield or armor tank, you can take advantage of the natural resists of each type... and its a pretty sweet mission boat.
ExcalibursTemplar
CANZUK
#10 - 2013-02-17 16:13:38 UTC
Hi hmm instead of starting another thread i thought I'd give this one a bump as its newish and on topic.

Basically I'm considering flying this Rattlesnake fit and would like some advice on it please.

[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake]

4x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Inferno Fury Cruise Missile)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Micro Jump Drive
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
3x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
2x Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

5x Garde II
1x Curator II
5x Bouncer II
5x Warden II

To start of with this is not an afk fit i will be actively running missions when using it, The basic idea is to warp into a mission pocket aggro the npc then to use the micro jump drive to warp of in to what ever direction i need that would put my sentry drones at the edge of their optimal range. Once at the range i want i deploy sentry drones and fire away missiles killing as many npc as possible. Then when the npc get to close i scoop my drones and micro jump warp to another location and repeat until all npc are dead.

Now i can fly this exact fit in 38 days and it will give me roughly 828 dps using Garde II and Fury cruise missiles and nearly a 100K EHP 80% resist omni tank. Then with something like i think another 3 or 4 months of training I'll be able to take that up to 1123 dps for Garde II and fury cruise missiles.

Thing is though I'm a missile boat guy and I've not really flown drone boats or used guns (the drones fire guns) that much. So I'm not entirely sure about this fit. I've got the basic idea down of how to use this fit in my head i just need some advice in tweaking it.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2013-02-17 23:05:01 UTC
your fit mostly looks fine just go 4 dda 2 bcus, and I'd probably just change the rigs. to what I'm not sure. rigors would help with the fury cruise, but tbh that's not a ton of help. resist rigs seem pretty useless, especially when you mjd + kite.

if you can use t2 drones nearly everything should die before it gets close enough that you have to mjd away. if you are going to active tank and brawl maybe using torps would be better (I haven't tried it, I mostly semi afk and use auto-targeting cruise).

I always carry a few flights of lights/mediums and garde IIs and then either curators (blood/drones/sansha) or wardens (guristas/serpentis/merc/eom). or berserkers and bouncers for angels. angels are really the only ones that get under sentry drone tracking with anything larger than frigs.

I'd go for drone skills before cruise skills. but you said you are a missile guy so you probably have that already.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-02-18 01:06:57 UTC
I currently fly a Gila (amongst other things).
It has the same dronebay/bandwidth as the rattlesnake, and you can pack a pretty good range of different drones into 400m3.

From the cruiser version perspective with regard to drones
Sentries are the best way to go, I use Gardes/Bouncers, a flight of Hobs for stuff that gets really close, and Hvy Shield Bots for fleet support. This setup should scale equally well with the rattlesnake.

As you would also have unbonused launchers your cruise/torpedo dps is going to be the 3rd thing you worry about
Your Drone DPS is 1st, Your Shield Tank is 2nd (and you should easily top 150k, 200k Ehp can be had at a push)....
Wolverine Stormrider
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-18 07:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolverine Stormrider
ExcalibursTemplar wrote:
Hi hmm instead of starting another thread i thought I'd give this one a bump as its newish and on topic.

Basically I'm considering flying this Rattlesnake fit and would like some advice on it please.

-snip-



Ugh damn board ate my post, rebuilding it, give me a moment.

EDIT

So on a gamble, I build a rattlesnake in game based off yours. I went for four drone damage amp II instead of three. Also I'm using slightly more tech I then your fit, but it did a Level 4 Angel Blockade just fine. 75% resists across the board roughly with my SP. My current drone loadout is basically what drones I had stored already. So far it tanks well enough while still doing fine dps for me to be happy with the lost of range compared to my LMJD cruise sniper Navy Raven.


[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre I x5
Caldari Navy Warden x5
Hammerhead II x5
ExcalibursTemplar
CANZUK
#14 - 2013-02-18 11:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ExcalibursTemplar
Thanks for the replies your input really is appreciated. After reading your reply's I've fiddle with the fit and come up with this.

[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake]

4x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Inferno Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Micro Jump Drive
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

4x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

5x Garde II
1x Curator II
5x Bouncer II
5x Warden II

I can use the sentries and fury missiles to take the big ships out then when I'm only left with the frigates i can use light drones and Caldari navy missiles to take them out. I put a tractor beam in there to as it will help with looting jetcans/wrecks that are mission objectives. Also i don't think i need to increase my drone range that much as the sentries will be sat right next to me taking everything out at range and the lights will be for taking out frigates that will probably be right on top of me
scramming and webbing me.

As for the rigs i don't know what the hell put in there so i went for tank as i just don't have any spare cpu. Unless i rip out a +5% missile damage hardwire implant and replace it with a cpu hardwire implant.
ExcalibursTemplar
CANZUK
#15 - 2013-02-18 11:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ExcalibursTemplar
double post sorry
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#16 - 2013-02-19 15:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nash MacAllister
Rattlesnake is a great ship but if you are going to fly it, commit to the skill path to fly it well. If you do, it is pretty amazing...

May want to reconsider the rigs. That Sentry rig isn't getting you more than a few extra dps, much better to fit something else. Why does nobody EFT the stacking penalty on this?

Not sold on the MJD. I would rather have a deadspace 100MN AB or MWD as you aren't always motoring 100km.

Also, spring for Fed Navy Omnis, well worth the price.

Staying with your original concept, and adding a little. Not how I flew it for missions but seems viable. Maybe switch 1 solidifier for 1 rigor? I overtanked so I never had to manage aggro, clearly a purger path for that to work, and much less dps.

[Rattlesnake, New Setup 2]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Booster II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

Hobgoblin II x5
Bouncer II x5
Garde II x5
Warden II x5

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#17 - 2013-02-19 16:06:06 UTC
Doing L4 mission in fleet means you give away money to weaker members of fleet. Soloing in 1 or 2 accounts is much more profitable and safer. If you are hi-sec corp i strongly suggest disbanding ingame corp, joining npc corp and maintaining your social structure by out of game means. Hi-sec corp currently is like drawing big bullseye on your ass saying wardec me.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-02-19 16:54:11 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
Doing L4 mission in fleet means you give away money to weaker members of fleet. Soloing in 1 or 2 accounts is much more profitable and safer. If you are hi-sec corp i strongly suggest disbanding ingame corp, joining npc corp and maintaining your social structure by out of game means. Hi-sec corp currently is like drawing big bullseye on your ass saying wardec me.

Unless you are going to carry wardecs out themselves, that's it.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Screenlag
Armaggedon Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2013-02-19 17:00:33 UTC
yes. I've done quite a bit of sentry ratting since the changes, and they barely touch my sentries.
Wet Owl
Make MILFs Pretty Again
#20 - 2013-02-22 07:49:45 UTC
any comments about this fit?

Quote:

[Rattlesnake, Rattle_2]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist C-Type EM Ward Field
Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Core Defense Field Extender II


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5


absence MJD\AB offset by higher resists
any limitations? (except cost and 1 LSE rigs)
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