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Why is Illegal Salvaging not a crime?

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Spurty
#61 - 2013-02-19 00:39:20 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
It is not illegal. It is a wreck and you are doing space a service by salvaging them. It is an environmental service.

So I can shoot it?

Thanks!

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#62 - 2013-02-19 00:41:27 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
It is not illegal. It is a wreck and you are doing space a service by salvaging them. It is an environmental service.

So I can shoot it?

Thanks!

Sure thing. Just be sure to set your safeties to red so your guns can shoot in highsec.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2013-02-19 00:43:55 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
It is not illegal. It is a wreck and you are doing space a service by salvaging them. It is an environmental service.

So I can shoot it?

Thanks!

Sure thing. Just be sure to set your safeties to red so your guns can shoot in highsec.

I set mine to violet, because I am pretty sure its a misspell for their intended purpose of violence.

Also nothing is yours until it is safely ensconced in your hangar.
Until then it belongs to whomever has the will and the resources to take it.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#64 - 2013-02-19 00:52:25 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
It's kind of implied that this is a highsec thread as the proposed solution is to have CCP/CONCORD fix your problem for you.


Since when do players not shoot each other in HS?

http://themittani.com/news/rvb-vs-e-uni-second-battle-aldrat

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#65 - 2013-02-19 03:35:32 UTC
So here's a technological reason as to why this is the way it is.

When a wreck is created it essentially takes on 2 roles. One as a container, and the other as resource.

Assuming the wreck has no loot in it it essentially becomes a special asteroid that is owned by no one. The salvage itself hasn't been created yet though. No tangible items exist in the universe.

Salvaging is what brings these items into the world, the same way that mining and asteroid brings the veldspar item into the world. And thus the salvaged parts have no ownership until they exist.

Changing the underlying code to change the system would probably have all sorts of implications and would take a lot of time to implement as well as being very likely to cause bugs to raise as the changes break other systems somewhere.

Game design wise it's being left that way as a means of a mini-profession. It is intended that salvage be a completely separate resource that is openly available much in the same way all the roids in the belts are.

The Drake is a Lie
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#66 - 2013-02-19 03:58:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Do you know what I do if someone is doing something I don't like in highsec? I declare war on them or suicide gank or awox them with my alt.

It works pretty well for me, maybe you should try it.
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-02-19 05:25:24 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.


I made almost 500m ISK in my first week as a salvager. Sure beats the hell outta shooting rocks.

I'm also of the opinion that stealing loot from a wreck shouldn't flag you at all. If the wreck itself is free game, whatever is contained inside of it should be too.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#68 - 2013-02-19 05:47:06 UTC
Andski wrote:
so if the income potential of salvaging is so bad, in your opinion, that even new players shouldn't bother with it, why are you whining up a storm about others being able to salvage your wrecks

also you're wrong, we toss noctises at newbies and they salvage up a storm in hubs and havens, enough to supply themselves with skillbooks and ships and other stuff


^this

When my partner started playing, the first thing I did was contract over a Noctis and the books required for the training to fly it.

Salvage makes up anywhere from 20-40% of the income of L4 missions. Ninja salvaging is a noble profession which embodies the most essential virtues of an EVE pilot: ruthlessness, cunning and aggressive. Always be looking to turn another player's inattention or laziness to your advantage. Given that you can fly a destroyer and use a salvager and combat probes for free if you do the tutorial missions, why wouldn't any new player start ninja salvaging the moment they finish the tutorials? 1/3 the income of an L4 mission runner with near zero expenses.

As for the original question: illegal salvaging doesn't exist in the game. There is only salvaging. Just because you claim moral rights to a piece of space wreckage that you may have been involved in creating doesn't mean you actually have any claim to it.

All new players should be encourages to head out into mission hubs and foment conflict.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#69 - 2013-02-19 06:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Officer, a horrible crime has just been committed.

A suspicious looking man was hanging around in the parking lot, so I shot and killed him.

What? No, that's not the horrible part.

Some punk ran up and stole my wallet out of his pocket before I could get to the body.

Why are you looking at me like that? DO SOMETHING!

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#70 - 2013-02-19 06:15:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Officer, a horrible crime has just been committed.

A suspicious looking man was hanging around in the parking lot, so I shot and killed him.

What? No, that's not the horrible part.

Some punk ran up and stole my wallet out of his pocket before I could get to the body.

Why are you looking at me like that? DO SOMETHING!

It would be more appropriate to say that the punk ran up and liberated the kidney or heart from the body, but anyway...

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#71 - 2013-02-19 06:22:17 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Officer, a horrible crime has just been committed.

A suspicious looking man was hanging around in the parking lot, so I shot and killed him.

What? No, that's not the horrible part.

Some punk ran up and stole my wallet out of his pocket before I could get to the body.

Why are you looking at me like that? DO SOMETHING!


That's ninja looting.

Ninja salvaging is:
"Some punk ran up, undressed the body, left the clothes in a nice cardboard box for me, and took the naked body away to harvest its component materials."

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#72 - 2013-02-19 13:28:32 UTC
Whim Aqayn wrote:

Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind?


Faction spawns leave blue/T2 salvage behind sometimes. In nullsec anyway, don't know about high sec.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#73 - 2013-02-19 13:32:22 UTC
Clean up yer wrecks as soon as you make them. Problem Solv-ed.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-02-19 13:36:49 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Whim Aqayn wrote:

Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind?


Faction spawns leave blue/T2 salvage behind sometimes. In nullsec anyway, don't know about high sec.


Yep. You can salvage faction spawns in plexes and anoms in highsec to get T2 salvage. Takes a bloody age to crack those wrecks with a single T1 salvager, let me tell you.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-02-19 13:38:35 UTC
Kane Alvo wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.


I made almost 500m ISK in my first week as a salvager. Sure beats the hell outta shooting rocks.

I'm also of the opinion that stealing loot from a wreck shouldn't flag you at all. If the wreck itself is free game, whatever is contained inside of it should be too.


Then how would people bait mission runners into shooting at them?
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-02-19 14:23:42 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.


So why are you doing it, einstein?
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#77 - 2013-02-19 14:24:36 UTC
Illegal salvaging IS a crime
I think it is the LEGAL salvaging you are having a problem with.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Mike Mulder
Imperial Phoenix Legion
#78 - 2013-02-19 14:39:13 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
Im quite sure if someone salvages your wreck you are allowed to shoot them.


Nope. You do not get suspect or aggro flag salvaging other peoples' wrecks...only looting them.
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#79 - 2013-02-19 16:20:52 UTC
Even all these years later, these threads still warm my cold, shriveled diabolical heart. Ninja on my brothers, ninja on.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-02-19 16:53:41 UTC
While I'm not proposing a change one way or the other, I do have a problem with the basic logic of CONCORD in this instance.

Examples:

Scrap Metal -- 8k ISK (valuable, not okay to salvage)
Armor Plates -- 200k ISK (not valuable, okay to salvage)
Most meta 1 crap modules -- < 20k ISK (valuable, not okay to salvage)
Tripped Circuits -- 150k ISK (not valuable, okay to salvage)

Loot is salvage is loot. The game just makes a distinction between the two systems because there is a breakdown between modules and rigs. But this is an artificial distinction. If I'm looting something, I'm going to loot the valuable stuff. If the spark plugs are made of gold-plated platinum and are ten times as valuable as something else, that's loot and I'm going to take it.

The real distinction isn't value. It's whether or not you need special equipment to extract it. So I can see some people having a problem with that logical inconsistency given the comments by the devs. This is exacerbated by the fact that in the real world, there is little to compare to since this artificial distinction doesn't exist.