EVE Information Portal

Putting aside the troll epidemic, I still can't get an answer:

If I have, for example, Command Ships trained before the changes, but not, say, Amarr Cruisers V trained, will I be able to fly the Amarr Command Ships after the changes if I meet the new prerequisites *except* the new ones for Command Ships. Or, MUST I have Amarr Cruisers trained to V BEFORE the changes in order to fly their Command Ships after the changes.

Essentially, the talk has been "if you can fly the **SHIP** before, you can fly it after". I want to know if this really means "if you have the **SKILL** before, you will have it after (and can use the skill to fulfill other requirements just as if you had trained it after the changes even though you don't have all of its new prerequisites)".

Please only answer if you can and do read the entire post, understand what I have written, and know what the "h" "e" double-hockey sticks you are talking about (and preferably are a dev).

The point is not academic. It has serious ramifications to capital and super capital ships as well.

Thanks. Excellent. And from a dev!

(ummmm, something weird happens to the edited quote of my original question.)

Fixed

Frist of all GM, make a sticky where we can react on those idea's and link it in your deff blog.

All content and quote's in this post come from: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74234
-

Rookie ships, no more racial skills, seems oke to me almost nobody uses them annyway.
But will you also give out Amarr rookie ships if i dock with my pod in a amarr station, or will i still be getting loved reapers there?

Racial destroyers and Racial battlecruisers, al seems good to me.I understand why you want to make that change.

All T1 Frigates, Cruiser, Battleships flyable at level 1. Rubish.
Your idea is that with Amarr Cruiser lvl 1, I can fly all the Tier Cruisers. So basicly you want to strip down the tier lvl on the cruisers. (Maller= tier 3) and give them roles and people need to train for that.
The Idea behind the tier system as you inveted it, is that a tier 3 battelship would always be stronger then a tier 1. if the pilots have the same skill set, it was up to people to change the ship with differnet module/skill sets. Now that your tier system is not longer important do you gonna reduce the mineral cost as they are all tier 1 ships??? what you gonna do to keep your tier system alive?
Because people entering the highest tier battleship in 2 days is rubish. (I see fitting still takes as long as normal).

Command ships,
in short, yea all basic leaderships skills to level 5, Why?? If want to fly a dammnation I dont need siege warfare lvl 5. I dont wish to train it. its

And then the Capital skills.
Yea people don't longer need to master the Battleship first before they can get in the biggest ship in the game...
Because player need to able to get faster in ships and have more choice abbilty in what they want to fly. But my question is do you realy make it easyer and give the player more freedom and indepence which ship he wants to fly? But you nerf that again in the same patch.
For example the dread: why do you add stuff like Tatical reconfirguation to the requirement of a dread? I dont wanna siege with my dread now i need to have 30days of training before I can fly my ship with a module i will never use.
For example the carrier: You add al those Jumpdrive skills, I dont want to train them I wanna play docking games with my carrier.
For Titan: you add jump portal operation, Ofcourse every titan pilot want one of them, but there are also some that prefer to use guns on there titan, and you require them to have jump drive portal.

So my conclusion,
Most of the training time is removed because you downgrade the requirment off the space command skills.
But you add training time to make it look equal. But the training time you add is mostly of the most used modules/jumpdrive skills.
So you I need to train for dreadnought and train for the modules before i can fly the ship.
If i train for a ship, I train for I train Space ship command skill. If i train for a fitting, I train for the modules requirments. If i wanna improve my ship basics, I train elecontronics/ engerineering/Navigation/mechanics.
You're mixing that up right now and that is a waste. That effects the players freedom more then you think.

What you're doing right now is making the archon the new drake. I hope your servers can handle that.

I have to say I find these changes redudant an unneccessary. So when these changes take effect - I need to be able to use a Skirmish Warfare link in order to fly my sliepnir? A Field command ship..commonly used for soloing where warfare links are totally unnecessary. So when you said "if I could fly it before, i'll be able to fly it after these changes" you meant... except for your command ships if you don't have leadership training.

What I don't get is why CCP is choosing to revamp skill sets when there is so much more you could be doing for the game. You say that the destroyers and battlecruisers skills will be the same ranks as they were before. So how is my 1.5mil in battlecruisers going to be distributed amongst the racial skills you plan to implement if they are the same rank (meaning the same amount of skillpoints to achieve level V.)

I can say some of these changes actually seem like it will make it EASIER to get into certain ships... but requiring a warfare link module on a field command ship is freaking stupid. So the only way I'll still be able to fly what I could fly before is by training an extra skill that isn't on my plan until I after I get into my carrier.


(how about stop driving away your player base with changes like... i need extra skills to fly my sliepnir.. or oh no carebears can't get out of the belts quick enough in local or can't tank a nano fleet to death..so let's kill nano) .... there was a time when southern 0.0 was full of players.. fly through catch and querious these days... where'd everybody go?

edit#2 - Oh yes..let's not forget... all t1 battlecruisers can fit a warfare link module too. let's make sure and make that a requirement as well...*sarcasm switch turned off* And not that I'd ever do it....but if i wanted too..who's to say I can't fly a sabre with 7 turrets and a cloak? Again...redundant and unnecessary. Think this one through some more... it's like these changes are being made from people who don't even play the game.

Nope, Only if you are learning the skill now. The prereqs are for INJECTING a skill, not flying a ship you have the skill for.


Read the OP again. you get skillpoints for free.

I missed the free skillpoints but at the same time - no, the ship requirement itself lists the warefare skil.. so to sit in the hull you need the skill.


I'm not going to be able to sit in it without the skill...

*edit* As far as i know...any RED X on a prerequisite skill listed on the hull means I can't sit in the hull. They show a field and fleet command ship in the BEFORE photos, and just a f;eet command ship in the after, which has the prereqs for "command ship" listed in it['s description.. which includeds all of the leadership bonus skills at lvl V. so basically.. what they're saying is i have about 4 more weeks of training to fly my sliepnir in the summer, which I can already fly now.

Now if a DEV would like to clarify this for me... please do..but otherwise.. i feel like i'm being robbed of about 4 weeks I had already dedicated to other skills.


And regardless... this change is needed for what? New players... well.. my point being.. your older players are going to be pissed at you when they can no longer sit in their field command ship hulls... there's an outstanding petition from several thousand older players who will not come back to the game until you address it. Yet your priorities are revamping the skill system. Those of us who are happy within the game (the majority of the eve player base) rarely post on the forums... we work within the current game mechanics and being one of them.. I do not see the need for this course of action. Much less the need to train 4 more level 5 fleet bonus skills to fly a ship I specifically fit for soloing in lowsec.

Fozzie I appreciate your reassurance. I'll quit complaining to you. I remain in the belief that this is a completely unnecessary change to the game.. but if I'll still be able to fly my sleipnir without additional training, it doesn't bother me so much.

I've never sat in a ship with red x's in the prereq list at all.. usually because those skills are required to train the "hac" skill or whatever. So pardon my confusion on that aspect and for being a little skeptical. You may have already covered this answer earlier in the posts.. but.. i spend my eve time playing eve normally.. not trying to fish out bits and pieces from 44 pages of forums.

I didn't see a problem with the old system though, if you needed skills to use a mod you found out one way or another. ;)

Thanks Fozzie.

edit -(admittedly..when I saw the before and after photos of the command ships.. my brain went from "acquire intel" to "search and destroy" and I stopped reading. Having read more now, The only statement I could find regarding my concern of field command ships is "If you could fly it before, you can fly it now"...and indeed in terms of prerequisites this is what I was questioning. What you explained to me could be added to that devblog and you'd probably find less confused people like myself. I doubt any of us have ever encountered a hull we could sit in with red x's down the list. I'm sure this game mechanic must be explained somewhere in the vast eve database but I've never had a reason to look that up... as until this point there's never been a way to have the "top skill" of every section and not have its prerequisite.

Last edit - I would suggest getting rid of those skills as prereqs for the command ship skill. It doesn't make sense to me that a pilot who will train into command ships in the future will have to train for all of the available command mods, especially if he's only training for a specific race, as indicated by the racial battlecruiser skills. I.E. Claymore which only gets bonuses to skirmish links. Sure it would be nice if he gave the other bonuses as well but lvl IV's would easily do for bonuses especially seeing as that claymore would probably be put in a squad that benefits from lower sig radius, propulsion jamming range, and mwd speed far more than they would benefit from the other bonuses. And again... it most scenarios i've seen field command ships in..they aren't running links anyway..or a gang. It would make more sense to me if Armored Warfare V was required for a damnation..skirmish for a claymore etc. etc. or better yet...not required at all except to put the mods on your ship.

Last edit - Just wanted to say thank you again for straightening me out Fozzie. I apologize for coming to the forums in complaint rather than inquisition. I love EVE. Thank you for building the Universe.. sorry that I only come to the forums in fear of change, some which have happened that I still wish hadn't, some that are exciting and fun to play with. I have a lot of free time - EVE is a blessing to me. I've taken my breaks from it but - in the end it's the only game in the world that has ever gotten my heart to thump so loud that I can hear it. All it takes is one red on the overview in point range, thump thump, thump thump. People call it lazy but I'm not spending $30 a month to read forums.. but pew pew and make isk to fund pew pew, train skills so I have bigger ships to move my pewpew around. I have to question people who have the time to gripe at someone for "not thouroughly reading" books and chapters of forum navigation but not the time to answer questions. My forum posting got me the information I needed within minutes. This benefitted 20-50 people in my corporation. How many people did your griping at me for seeking knowledge benefit? I should've finished reading admittedly but I lacked an understanding of a game mechanic and even after finishing the blog, I still saw no mention of that mechanic. To anyone with anyhting productive to say - thanks for speeding up the research. Fozzie, thank you for clearing up the game mechanic. I felt a little bad about how I carried myself when I posted and I think you devs deserve some love for creating this monster called Eve. I'll come moan the next time some big change scares me.

I'm making my last comment to you since you apparently are having issues getting the point, but if you really think you have a legitimate complaint don't you think it best to clearly state that complaint rather than make a semi insulting comment about a reimbursement that doesn't affect you?

As to all the other posts, which ones were stating your concern? The ones praising the change? The ones trying to identify further details? The ones just yelling that it is unneeded or that it dumbs down the game? Again you didn't specify what your complaint was so how would I have any way of knowing which of the issues stated before you were referring to, especially considering you are now saying that what you posted had nothing to do with that?

The answers to what you really meant there could have ranged from RTFDB to something only CCP Fozzie could elaborate on, so I tried to ask a question to clarify. But you did teach me one thing. You are a troll that got me to bite 3 times now. And funny enough I actually addressed your question when you actually asked it in another thread. But I'm a troll. Gotcha. Don't worry, I won't be addressing you anymore. Not worth the effort I'm putting forth.

This is true. And it annoys me when I read through the forums and people don't even bother to read what is posted in the op!

Seriously, stop holding peoples' hands so much. I know that some people who come to the forums are lazy and don't read, but just give them a terse answer like "it's in the blog. have a look."