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Past the Point of No Return.
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Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-02-18 15:25:19 UTC
Seraphia-guri,I'm finding your flailing attempts at justification and damage control highly amusing as I'm sure are many others. Please continue making yourself appear a larger fool then you already do by criticizing those who have demonstrated their loyalty and integrity to this forum at large.

Khross-haan and Khross-haani, you are both a welcome sight here, it's good to have you back.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-02-18 15:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
Seraphia 'Chaos' Tovil-Toba wrote:
By Khross's reasoning, we would all be happily living on Caldair Prime, under the heel of the Gallente. A former StaPro pilot arguing for, what exactly? Passive resistance? Peaceful resolutions?

Do you have any idea how ludicrous you sound, Khross?


Taking a situation and the reasoning behind it to an illogical extreme does not justify a fallacious standpoint.

If you haven't figured out what we (as in, other Caldari and not just myself) have been telling you throughout this thread then you're either entirely bereft of intellectual capacity or simply ignoring what's said. For your sake, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former.

The point being made is that claiming you are loyal to the ideals of the Raata Empire and the Caldari people while simultaneously boasting about joining an organization that has no respect or reverence for either of those things and then justifying your decision by pointing out the sins of a singular organization is not only fallacious, it's absurd.

What you should be doing if you truly believed in what you claim to believe in and advocate others to do, is remain faithful to the Caldari people, especially those becoming victims of unwarranted and illegal aggression, not participate in aggression against said people, support the movement(s) within the State that would lead toward reform and resolution and use your guns against enemies of the Caldari people and the State as you hope it to one day be, such as the Guristas.

Not flying out to join them. Need any further clarifications?

~Malcolm Khross
Rhiannon Dellacorte
Liberty Vanguard
#43 - 2013-02-18 15:33:21 UTC
There's no lie quite so powerful as the lie to oneself.

Rules of Acquisition #261

A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.
Solarienne
Hrimdraugar
#44 - 2013-02-18 15:42:37 UTC
To be honest, the more this progresses, the more she DEFINITELY sounds good for the Guri.

I am sure people of all stripes will agree if they think for a moment on both the positive and negative connotations.

PY-RE Combat Pilot
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#45 - 2013-02-18 16:25:30 UTC
Seraphia 'Chaos' Tovil-Toba wrote:
I was going to respond to Khross, then I realized he was serious. I just can't correct that level of . . . Ancestors, I don't even know what to call it.


You are missing a vital piece of the Caldari mentality. Solidarity. When we strike, we strike once, with final decisiveness. When our house must be re-ordered, we do not announce that we do so, and we never betray our own, even amidst what an outsider would call a betrayal.

You are not one of us, this much is clear by your deeds and the moniker you wear. I wish you well, and hope your future is full of light.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-02-19 02:44:35 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
You're no relation to a Tovil-Toba, either by blood or spirit. There are no records I can find linking you to the Tovil-Toba family. So, basically, you're trading on the name of a national hero to try to advocate for piracy. Well, that, or you are trying to be a Special Space Princess. Probably both.


Lying to try and discredit someone is a wonderful idea, assuming others don't have access to those same records and can easily ascertain that you are lying. Her great (times 7) grandfather was Goro Tovil-Toba, YakiyaTobil-Toba's first cousin-which meant that they had the same grandfather.

Her branch of the family settled in Ticho, a largish city on New Caldari, away from the 'main' branch of the Tobil-Tova family that were the direct descendants of Yakiya. The family are Lai Dai citizens, although, many join the Caldari Navy. Seraphia is the first in her branch of the family to ascend to the ranks of capsuleer and her family has released a statement condemning her in the strongest possible terms, saying "We have no daughter Seraphia." They also added that if the girl ever came to her senses, she should do the honorable thing and take her own life.

If you wish to take character assassination lessons from the best in the cluster, The Mittani, I can arrange it for two billion ISK, paid up front.


No, she isn't, and no, there isn't. I think you just made that up. Am I wrong? Fine. Get someone here from the house of records. Or CONCORD.

I can wait. I think I'll be waiting for a long time.
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-02-19 03:00:36 UTC
Vikarion wrote:


No, she isn't, and no, there isn't. I think you just made that up. Am I wrong? Fine. Get someone here from the house of records. Or CONCORD.

I can wait. I think I'll be waiting for a long time.


Since you were the one that called into question the validity of her claims, the onus is on you. Cripes, you ******* ******** pubby.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2013-02-19 03:07:41 UTC
I must admit I'm surprised captain Tovil-Toba still doesn't get the point captain Khross is so clearly making. It's been a brilliant exposition, if I may say so, but if she doesn't get it still, then I believe little can be done for her.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#49 - 2013-02-19 03:15:18 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
You're no relation to a Tovil-Toba, either by blood or spirit. There are no records I can find linking you to the Tovil-Toba family. So, basically, you're trading on the name of a national hero to try to advocate for piracy. Well, that, or you are trying to be a Special Space Princess. Probably both.

Tovil-Toba fought for the Megas. Tovil-Toba fought for the Caldari people. Many of us disagree with Heth, no Caldari citizen fights against the Megas. The Megacorporations are who we are. Stating that they should be destroyed is arguing for the destruction of the Caldari culture, and the Caldari people.

The Guristas are active allies of the Nation, an entity that has spent the previous few years enslaving anyone it can find. The Guristas have openly advocated capsuleer assistance to the Nation, as well. The Guristas are also allies of the Blood Raiders. Oh, and, in addition to that, they have their own crimes, which include kidnapping, murder, assassination, bombardment of planets with nerve agents, sabotage, and many other crimes too numerous to list. To suggest that they are some sort of haven for Caldari isn't just deceptive, it's blatantly stupid, considering the fact that everyone knows this.

And as for we capsuleers, don't forget that one of the founding members of the Guristas has some serious issues with podders, and wants us all dead. Sounds like an excellent employment prospect, doesn't it? For you, that is. Those of us with loyalty, some ethics, and a modicum of intelligence know where our actions are best direct.

That's funny, Vikarion. From the way you speak, you'd almost think you never went rogue yourself.

A bit selective about which parts of the past you choose to honor, hm?
Vikarion
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-02-19 04:18:40 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Vikarion wrote:


No, she isn't, and no, there isn't. I think you just made that up. Am I wrong? Fine. Get someone here from the house of records. Or CONCORD.

I can wait. I think I'll be waiting for a long time.


Since you were the one that called into question the validity of her claims, the onus is on you. Cripes, you ******* ******** pubby.


Ah-ah. Nice try. Burden of proof is on the original claim. Claim there's a god, or a moon of green cheese, or whatever. It's only believable if proof can be given. Someone claiming that they are an descendant of Tovil-Toba, and trading on that name to attack the State? Quite the extraordinary claim. In this case, I'll believe it when I can find some record of it in official CONCORD or SCC databases, or, for that matter, get someone here from the House of Records. Hell, we've had dozens of capsuleers coming into this forum claiming relations with some famous figure or another for years - I would think that you'd be a bit more skeptical for the sake of your image, although the attempt at fabrication was interesting, I'll admit.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-02-19 04:20:42 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
That's funny, Vikarion. From the way you speak, you'd almost think you never went rogue yourself.

A bit selective about which parts of the past you choose to honor, hm?


As you well know, I did not advocate violence against the State, the toppling of the Megas, or claim that the State was no longer worth devotion. Misguided? Yes, I was misguided. But I never lifted a finger against the State.
Seraphia 'Chaos' Tovil-Toba
Doomheim
#52 - 2013-02-19 04:39:50 UTC
Vikarion, you clearly cannot read. I never claimed to be descended from Yakiya Tovil-Toba. I am a member of a branch of the Tovil-Toba family.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-02-19 04:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Seraphia 'Chaos' Tovil-Toba wrote:
Vikarion, you clearly cannot read. I never claimed to be descended from Yakiya Tovil-Toba. I am a member of a branch of the Tovil-Toba family.


Fine. Prove it. Explain to us why the rest of us don't also get to be Tovil-Tobas or Sobaseki's or whatever while you are at it, would you please?
Seraphia 'Chaos' Tovil-Toba
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-02-19 04:54:33 UTC
You were not born one? As for proof, it's in the records. Vea found it out easy enough. My father, Ursak Tovil-Toba retired as a first Lieutenant in the Caldari Navy. His father, Adreyy, worked for Lai Dai in content analysis, and so on.
I'll let you in on a little secret. Sex is fun. It also produces children. Odd's are that you are related to someone of note.
If I had made a comment about supporting the State in these troubling times, or some other feel good crap, you would have praised me as an example to be followed. But since I want to overthrow the State and get rich in the process, you decide to falsely claim that I am not who I say I am.

One day, I am going to burn you alive for that insult.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-02-19 05:03:42 UTC
Seraphia 'Chaos' Tovil-Toba wrote:
You were not born one? As for proof, it's in the records. Vea found it out easy enough. My father, Ursak Tovil-Toba retired as a first Lieutenant in the Caldari Navy. His father, Adreyy, worked for Lai Dai in content analysis, and so on.
I'll let you in on a little secret. Sex is fun. It also produces children. Odd's are that you are related to someone of note.
If I had made a comment about supporting the State in these troubling times, or some other feel good crap, you would have praised me as an example to be followed. But since I want to overthrow the State and get rich in the process, you decide to falsely claim that I am not who I say I am.

One day, I am going to burn you alive for that insult.


Or you could just be making all of that up. And as for coming after me, please do, puny whelp. Burn me? I'll flay you alive and drape your skins over my ships. Don't worry. You'll still be alive to see the new decorations.
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#56 - 2013-02-19 05:18:44 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
As you well know, I did not advocate violence against the State, the toppling of the Megas, or claim that the State was no longer worth devotion. Misguided? Yes, I was misguided. But I never lifted a finger against the State.

I could go on to argue otherwise. For the sake of old...acquaintance, I choose not to.

I do find it sad, however, to see old capsuleers hiss and spit fire at the "stupid" young for making the same kinds of presumably misguided decisions they themselves made, not so many years ago.

Is it really so hard to simply shrug your shoulders, set her to red and then leave her to succeed or fail as her aptitude and perseverance, or lack thereof, dictates? Isn't that Caldari enough? And who gives a damn about her name or her relations, true or false? You know as well as I do that no capsuleer gets a free pass among his or her peers based on a name they haven't built for themselves.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-02-19 05:30:36 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
As you well know, I did not advocate violence against the State, the toppling of the Megas, or claim that the State was no longer worth devotion. Misguided? Yes, I was misguided. But I never lifted a finger against the State.

I could go on to argue otherwise. For the sake of old...acquaintance, I choose not to.

I do find it sad, however, to see old capsuleers hiss and spit fire at the "stupid" young for making the same kinds of presumably misguided decisions they themselves made, not so many years ago.

Is it really so hard to simply shrug your shoulders, set her to red and then leave her to succeed or fail as her aptitude and perseverance, or lack thereof, dictates? Isn't that Caldari enough? And who gives a damn about her name or her relations, true or false? You know as well as I do that no capsuleer gets a free pass among his or her peers based on a name they haven't built for themselves.


It's just part of the grand game, Natalcya. You know how this works.
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#58 - 2013-02-19 06:13:32 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
It's just part of the grand game, Natalcya. You know how this works.

You always were a bit bloodthirsty, weren't you?

In any case, I see she's already busy tying a noose on the rope you have handed her. Any further interjection on my part seems pointless, now.

Do as you will.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-02-19 06:15:56 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
It's just part of the grand game, Natalcya. You know how this works.

You always were a bit bloodthirsty, weren't you?

In any case, I see she's already busy tying a noose on the rope you have handed her. Any further interjection on my part seems pointless, now.

Do as you will.


One might say it's a sin not to be.

And you as well, my dear.
Seraphia 'Chaos' Tovil-Toba
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-02-19 13:39:17 UTC
While the rest of the naysayers will continue to say . . . nay, I have been busy. I have set up a corp and have arranged transport for over one hundred baseliners to Venal. Apparently, they read my posting and are dissatisfied with the State as well. I have a limited number of slots for pilots, so if anyone is interested, send me a mail.
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