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Tempest or Tornado?
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Anell
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-02-17 21:05:23 UTC
Hello,

I am an old player who has not been around for a few years. Got back into it a few months ago mostly just doing missions to earn money. I have 16 million sp mostly in combat and related combat skills. My current missioner is a hurricane and it has completely demolished any level 3 mission I have thrown at it. That is until my current mission which is "The Blockade." I could probably struggle through with this mission but I am at a point where I think I just need a better ship. The question is can I mission fit a Tornado or should I bite the bullet and buy a Tempest?

I did some google searches for Tornado and found that a lot of people were saying it is a terrible mission ship, but most of those posts were 2 years old. So have the made the Tornado better? Basic thought process here is to save money. I only have 250million isk. If I drop 150 on just buying the Tempest I will eat up a good deal of the rest on fittings etc.

Any thoughts?
Novah Soul
#2 - 2013-02-17 21:26:34 UTC
Anell wrote:
Hello,

I am an old player who has not been around for a few years. Got back into it a few months ago mostly just doing missions to earn money. I have 16 million sp mostly in combat and related combat skills. My current missioner is a hurricane and it has completely demolished any level 3 mission I have thrown at it. That is until my current mission which is "The Blockade." I could probably struggle through with this mission but I am at a point where I think I just need a better ship. The question is can I mission fit a Tornado or should I bite the bullet and buy a Tempest?

I did some google searches for Tornado and found that a lot of people were saying it is a terrible mission ship, but most of those posts were 2 years old. So have the made the Tornado better? Basic thought process here is to save money. I only have 250million isk. If I drop 150 on just buying the Tempest I will eat up a good deal of the rest on fittings etc.

Any thoughts?

I havent really flown a Tornado but I am unaware of any changes to them, so I assume any old info like you mentioned is still on the money. The tier 3 BCs have always been a bit on the low side for tank and likely unsuitable for most missions b/c of this.

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#3 - 2013-02-17 22:16:11 UTC
Tier 3 BC's (Tornado) are great for gank fleets, quick in and out fights, and support work (with logistics) they can be fit up and run for the price your thinking but they wont do LVL-4 missions and will be marginal in many LVL-3 missions.



By comparison a Hurricane can be fit for under 250 mil and be perfect for LVL-3's and capable of several LVL-4's. The same tank will cost you closer to 500 mil on a Tornado, but they are fun to fly, but stick with the addage ''If you can't afford to lose it don't undock it''



If you have the ISK for a tempest you will probally be able to make the ISK for a Nado, if you go nado first you will probably be scraping together ISK to buy another ship, rather than making ISK for another ship.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#4 - 2013-02-17 22:50:51 UTC
Blockade is all about identifying and not shooting the triggers prematurely.

In the case of blockade specifically, its usually one of the largest class of ships, which is different or physically seperate from the others. Suggest reading eve survival for help with identifying the triggers.

The 'pest is probably less helpful then just doing the missions properly.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-17 23:01:14 UTC
Sounds like whatever tactic you usually use, is not working. Change your tactic, change your fit to follow your tactic.

Are you flying ac 'cane or arti 'cane?

I am carebear, I use arti 'cane. Kiting the rats at 35-42km, use long range ammo (yes, I know, less dps, but then I finish the mission and don't have to ask for help here). Not messing up the triggers also helps.

If you did mess up the triggers, you have 7 days to do the mission. You can simply wait for downtime. After the downtime the mission is reset, so you can start over and hopefully not repeat the mistake you made earlier.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-17 23:41:56 UTC
both tornado and tempest are terrible mission ships. the step up from hurricane is a mealstrom, but honestly a BS isnt very good for lvl 3. its more a matter of picking the right triggers.

perhaps if you link your fit we can help you streamline it. and you are popping the right triggers? read through eve survival etc?
Anell
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-02-17 23:44:52 UTC
I am flying an artillery hurricane. I am fighting Guristas or however it is spelled. So according to online tables I should be using Explosive Ammo. I switched to that but in a hurricane that means the type of ammo I use is relatively close in for artillery, for me that is 41km out max and 20km to be really effective. Long range ammo has ranges out beyond 55km (the max on my current targeting). The problem is that with long range ammos I can not break the tank on big ships in this level 3 mission. So I need to get in closer. The problem is that when I get in closer I get burned pretty quick even at 35km and have to warp out after killing only one ship.

So I am definitely going to need to change something.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2013-02-18 02:17:46 UTC
Guristas you should be using kinetic or secondary thermal. So use titanium sabot. Little less dps than thermal but get some extra range
Check the mission guide
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#9 - 2013-02-18 02:55:44 UTC
Anell wrote:
I am flying an artillery hurricane. I am fighting Guristas or however it is spelled. So according to online tables I should be using Explosive Ammo. I switched to that but in a hurricane that means the type of ammo I use is relatively close in for artillery, for me that is 41km out max and 20km to be really effective. Long range ammo has ranges out beyond 55km (the max on my current targeting). The problem is that with long range ammos I can not break the tank on big ships in this level 3 mission. So I need to get in closer. The problem is that when I get in closer I get burned pretty quick even at 35km and have to warp out after killing only one ship.

So I am definitely going to need to change something.


Are you running a guristas specific tank, using active hardeners ?
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-02-18 04:02:24 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
Guristas you should be using kinetic or secondary thermal. So use titanium sabot. Little less dps than thermal but get some extra range
Check the mission guide

^ This!

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-02-18 08:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Anell wrote:
Hello,

I am an old player who has not been around for a few years. Got back into it a few months ago mostly just doing missions to earn money. I have 16 million sp mostly in combat and related combat skills. My current missioner is a hurricane and it has completely demolished any level 3 mission I have thrown at it. That is until my current mission which is "The Blockade." I could probably struggle through with this mission but I am at a point where I think I just need a better ship. The question is can I mission fit a Tornado or should I bite the bullet and buy a Tempest?


The Cane can do any level 3 mission with ease, provided it's properly fit, Blockade is just one of those missions that can be nasty with dps if you pop triggers prematurely. Check the mission guide as said above and it'll be fine.

That said, I would advise against Tornado and Tempest for missions at all. You can make an argument for Fleet Tempest - in fact, I prefer it over Maelstrom (let the heart attacks commence) - but I definitely wouldn't use it over Cane for L3 missions simply for tracking reasons.

Quote:
I am flying an artillery hurricane. I am fighting Guristas or however it is spelled. So according to online tables I should be using Explosive Ammo.


Kinetic and secondary Thermal. Either Titanium Sabot or Phased Plasma should be your pick.

I'm interested - would you mind posting your fit? Something's telling me you're using a shield artillery cane... :)
Anell
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-02-18 13:56:23 UTC
I tried to find a more eloquent way of posting a fitting but it looks like folks just write it out, so here it is:

Energized Explosive Membrane II
Prototype Energized Thermic Membrane I
Prototype Energized Kenetic Membrane I
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructor I

10MN Afterburner II
Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger I
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter
F-12 Nonlinear Tracking Processor with Tracking Script

6x - 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I
'Malkulth' Heavy Missile Launcher I


Medium Ancillary Current Router I

I looked at the mission guide but none of the names on there resemble the enemies I am fighting. I will switch up what I shoot in hopes of inflicting more damage.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#13 - 2013-02-18 14:07:21 UTC
You can make your gurista tank stronger by removing the membranes and damage control, and use 2 thermic and 2 kinetic hardeners. You will need to exchange them again for missions against other pirates.

The mission will have a little icon thingie in the description to tell you who the enemy is.
Anell
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-02-18 14:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Anell
The icon says I am fighting the angel cartel, meaning I am definitely not fitting the right tank or shooting the right ammo. Apparently its Gistatis not Guristas.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#15 - 2013-02-18 14:22:32 UTC
Anell wrote:
The icon says I am fighting the angel cartel, meaning I am definitely not fitting the right tank or shooting the right ammo. Apparently its Gistatis not Guristas.


yep, gistxxxx anything is angels. 2 explosive hardeners, and 2 kinetic hardeners, and shoot explosive damage.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#16 - 2013-02-18 14:24:55 UTC
[Hurricane, pass 2 gurista]

6x 425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I (Phased Plasma M)
2x 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher (Scourge Heavy Missile)

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN Microwarpdrive II

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
4x Shield Power Relay II

3x Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

For Angels

[Hurricane, pass (Angel)]

6x 425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I (Fusion M)
2x 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher (Scourge Heavy Missile)

Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN Microwarpdrive II

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
4x Shield Power Relay II

3x Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

The regen on these is around 33% (you will see you best tank when the shield get down to 33%)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Clara Stewart
Stewart Collections
#17 - 2013-02-18 21:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Clara Stewart
Why would you fit a Damage Control and just 1 Gyro to a lvl3 hurricane?

Try this, I used it on 3 toons in pve I havn't just eft it.

[Hurricane]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Warrior II x5
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-02-18 22:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
Clara Stewart wrote:
Why would you fit a Damage Control and just 1 Gyro to a lvl3 hurricane?

Try this, I used it on 3 toons in pve I havn't just eft it.

[Hurricane]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Warrior II x5

Sniper that has no speed mod to dictate range, yep, I call that a failfit.

To be fair, the above fit would be fine in L2. L3 Blockade? Not good.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!