These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why is Illegal Salvaging not a crime?

Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#41 - 2013-02-18 13:44:15 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.

But in the case of the first 2 either PVE or PVP why isn't salvaging by some random/not in fleet person not give them suspect status? If you're bubble camping some null gate and you salvage and loot your PVP kills i can understand that but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?

What this something overlooked when crimewatch 2.0 was being built?


If you want to stop people salvaging 'your' wrecks, then mission in lo-sec or 0.0 where you can shoot anyone you like.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-02-18 13:46:39 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Look at this amazing and incredible new thread on a topic never before seen in GD.

Someone feel like looking up one of the many CCP Posts telling the OP he's wrong?



Ruby, dude you look good with that monocle. You look like a real Sir. Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Perramas
DreddNaut
#43 - 2013-02-18 13:52:43 UTC
Its to protect the stupid mission runners who think its only a cormorant, I will teach this guy a lesson! Then the next thing the dummy knows is he is being warp scrambled by a couple of condors and a bunch of cruisers are blowing his multibillion isk ship into space dust.

Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people- Eleanor Roosevelt

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#44 - 2013-02-18 14:02:22 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.

But in the case of the first 2 either PVE or PVP why isn't salvaging by some random/not in fleet person not give them suspect status? If you're bubble camping some null gate and you salvage and loot your PVP kills i can understand that but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?

What this something overlooked when crimewatch 2.0 was being built?


You could always take someone else's salvage. CCP has gone on record to say that salvage is fair game for everyone and the first one who salvages it gets it. HTFU and salvage faster. Or go do your missions in a less crowded system.
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-02-18 16:22:00 UTC
Trust me, we're going there.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-02-18 18:40:38 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.

It's way more than they can make mining or running missions as a 5 day old character. It's probably more than they'd make running lv2's as well.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-02-18 19:59:56 UTC
Salvaging wrecks made by other players is no more a crime than jumping into someone's mission and killing the NPCs in front of their eyes. You don't have the legal right to claim anything but the loot that may have survived the explosion as your own.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-02-18 20:02:31 UTC
it's completely realistic.

seriously some guys at ITV filmed a scrappy taking a busstop once.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#49 - 2013-02-18 20:07:28 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
it's completely realistic.

seriously some guys at ITV filmed a scrappy pikey taking a busstop once.


FTFY

God help the people who buy the Peugeot Onyx if it ever becomes reality, all that stuff that looks like copper, it is, at least according to Top Gear.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2013-02-18 20:23:04 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.
That's because in the former case, you've earned the right to any loot that might be found in the wreck by killing the NPC, whereas in the latter case, your crimes have made you forfeit any ownership claims to any loot that happens to survive.

Note the key word here: loot. Not salvage. Salvage is intentionally designed to be a free-for-all resource that people who engage in the (mini)profession of salvaging are meant to gather up. It is equally intentionally not designed as a reward for killing NPCs. Salvage exists to the one that creates it, but it is not created until you've run a successful salvager cycle on a wreck. As such, there is no illegal salvaging by very definition any more than it is a illegal to mine an asteroid, nor can it be a crime since it's not illegal.

It is also largely impossible to steal salvage from people by using a salvager module (and I'm guessing that this is what you're referring to here). The only way to steal someone's salvage is blow them up while they're transporting some in their cargo holds, and take it from their smouldering wrecks… but at that point, the salvage has actually turned into loot anyway so no special consideration is given to it.

It was not overlooked in CW2.0 — it was simply never a candidate for inclusion, again much like the mining of asteroids.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#51 - 2013-02-18 20:51:13 UTC
Thread Title wrote:


Why is Illegal Salvaging not a crime?


Illegal salvaging is a crime. It's illegal, after all.

Thing is, there is no such thing as illegal salvaging in this game, so the point is moot.

Mr Epeen Cool
Bane Veradun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-02-18 21:07:35 UTC
For the same reason that legal salvaging is not a crime.

Hi.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-02-18 21:25:37 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.

Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#54 - 2013-02-18 21:36:40 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.

But in the case of the first 2 either PVE or PVP why isn't salvaging by some random/not in fleet person not give them suspect status? If you're bubble camping some null gate and you salvage and loot your PVP kills i can understand that but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?

What this something overlooked when crimewatch 2.0 was being built?


The Revolutionary Front claims full responsibility for this guy's butthurt, much as we claimed ownership of his wreck field. By extension I suppose we may bear some responsibility for this silly thread.

Umm.... Have a nice day!?Blink

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-02-18 22:13:05 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.

Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable.

Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind?
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-02-18 22:22:54 UTC
Im quite sure if someone salvages your wreck you are allowed to shoot them.
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#57 - 2013-02-18 22:31:45 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
Im quite sure if someone salvages your wreck you are allowed to shoot them.

Yes. Please do.

"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk

Be careful what you wish for.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#58 - 2013-02-18 22:46:11 UTC
Whim Aqayn wrote:
Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind?


No, but Players do. That's another type of Ninja salvaging.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2013-02-18 23:17:16 UTC
Whim Aqayn wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.

Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable.

Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind?

Who said anything about NPCs?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-02-19 00:34:04 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Whim Aqayn wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.

Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable.

Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind?

Who said anything about NPCs?


It's kind of implied that this is a highsec thread as the proposed solution is to have CCP/CONCORD fix your problem for you.