Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is a really bad comparison, you're assuming someone is just fitting a DC for tank, nothing else, thing is T1 counterparts have much more EHP than you are showing here as they are capable of fitting more plates/ shield extenders/ what have you compared to their T2 counterparts, so the difference in EHP is MUCH bigger due to slot layouts and pwg/cpu output

We do understand this, but there is nowhere that such things can be discussed without being buried and forgotten about. This thread being about black ops and being sticky means that those who wish to discuss the future of them and present ideas about them will have a place to post those ideas and not have to be checking the forums every 10 min to ensure the discussion stays on the first page.

Your hotdrop tackle would likely tend to die, dont think this is such a good idea ;)

deploying recon alts to a system near you <3

Soo.. also any chances of having a Cov ops Logisitcs ship introduced? it would make BLops operations a lot scarier into enemy territory.

Already introduced.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Etana

For your BLOPsing pleasure.

I'm afraid that this is a terrible idea simply because it pushes the underused recons out of an already precarious role. This doesn't happen with the Widow because you really can't have too many jams on the field, so a squad of Falcons are useful and their use scales with the number of additional ships brought. This isn't so with webs and damps (there's only so slow you can make a ship go and so far you need to sensor damp and the bombers have got damps anyway), and points are likely to be covered by a good chunk of the fleet as is (black ops drops usually engage smaller, unsuspecting fleets). Besides, if you're waiting for a Sin to point someone then you've already lost your prey. Yep, people can bring links to boost sensors, but why do that when you can fit a point and just do the job yourself. The cyno's not going to open far enough from the enemy to keep the Black Ops safely out of range anyway (cynos are typically opened up at shotgun range to make sure nobody escapes and everyone dies quickly).

It also still doesn't address the issue you'd like it to address: why bring a billion ISK ship onto the field in any capacity other than to cloak up and hide somewhere so it can bridge the fleet back when the engagement is done? It's a battleship hull, so all the usual prey can become predators (tracking is pretty good versus large, slow battleships) and tackling something like a carrier might be a good choice if the carrier doesn't have fighters (really painful against BS hulls for the same reason that everyone else has an easy time preying on them). And a web or two from a hostile support (a throwaway Rifter or two warping in to help their dread isn't out of the question at all) will just help that dread turn your Black Ops into a pretty explosion before the dread dies.

They could just be made a lot cheaper to build. People would be more willing to risk them if they cost about the same as a nicely fit Tech 3 cruiser. They could be given a different role which would justify their cost. As it stands, I believe there will be two different Black Ops ships for each race when the changes are implemented. I can only assume one type will bring utility to the field in addition to the bridge capability and the other will be brought in a combat capacity without the bridge.

How about these ideas?

• Interdiction could be given to one (Hyperion hull).
• Remote armor rep bonuses to another (Abaddon hull)
• Remote shield rep bonuses to a third (Maelstrom hull)
• Widow keeps jam bonuses.

Logistics battleships seem pretty cool and useful and wouldn't edge out any currently used logi cruisers due to the price tag. Ditto for interdiction (not to mention that it's easier to run from a battleship and the cruiser hulls with giant tanks that already fulfill the interdiction role would actually be harder to kill).

Then couple these utility roles with one nasty downside: give the Black Ops ships something like a mini siege/triage module. They get to sit on the field like a dummy hoping the enemy doesn't react in time to kill their expensive battleship before it drops out of "Clandestine Support" mode, or whatever the module would be called. The mode would give the logi range and sensor boost bonuses to the logistics Black Ops ships and the Widow (permitting quick locking) and permit the interdiction module to be enabled for the other. They become immune to all the same e-war that dreads and carriers do (but not neuts), but can't go anywhere or activate their bridge/jump drive. They could even be given a small ship bay capable of carrying extra bombers and a single cruiser or so (to fulfill the role of extending engagements and permit people to re-ship if a few bombers are lost), just like carriers.

Then just make the combat black ops like mini dreads with similar abilities conferred but the downside of sitting there like idiots while in siege.

Says who? There are going to be two different sorts of Black Ops ships eventually, or that's the plan. One set of them devoted to support roles and another to damage sounds sensible.

And, just as I pointed out to the previous fellow, just adding e-war bonuses is not going to make anyone want to field a billion ISK ship that's squishier than a Tech 3 and costs more. Adding damps is useless because the bombers all have damps. Point... on a battleship? If you're waiting for a battleship to lock and point anyone then he's already gone from the field. Webs are obviously really useful, but an armor Loki is extremely hard to kill as it is and has bonused webs. Besides, what's the point in range bonuses? If the Black Ops is coming on field, he's coming in with the rest of his guys and that's point blank range. If they have time to run from that range with rapier/Loki webs on 'em, someone screwed up in deciding to engage. The Black Ops ought to do what it does now and only show up to bridge everyone back when the fight's done, add a little damage on the field if the enemy is vastly outnumbered and there's zero risk in losing such an expensive ship.

Ewar bonuses on battleship hulls at that price are a poor draw to field it in any actual combat. They might as well just keep playing bridge monkey like they do now and save their isk.

Jump your Black Ops BS over, E-war bonuses or no, to a hostile fleet in hostile territory and they'll all target it for three reasons:

1. It's a shiny killmail. There are few grander reasons in Eve to kill someone's ship than to hang it on your killboard as a trophy, and Black Ops ships are the rarest to die (because few are ever brought to a battlefield until the fighting's done), making them sexy trophies.
2. It's easier to kill than other shinies (covert Proteus, Loki, etc.) that might be on the field.
3. It's the fleet's bridge home. Killing it will strand them in hostile territory and force them to hoof it home (and face retaliation) unless they've got another Black Ops on standby to extract everyone.

Not trying to make recons obsolete. There are many ships out there with overlapping bonuses yet they all still get used, (see ships with web bonuses) for various reasons of differences in mobility, tank, and cost. BLOPS are in no way going to take out recons because for one, They are incredibly expensive when compared to recons, which would have stronger ewar bonuses. The benefit of the extra cost for BLOPs would be for the bridging and tanking capability, They still would not be more viable all the time.

We already have a nice lineup of covert ships with the exception of one role;
Scout (covert ops frigates)
EWar (Recon Cruisers)
Brawlers (Stealth Bombers)
Generalist (T3s)
But we are missing Attack role covert ops ships a nice opportunity for black ops to fill.