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If clones were free would more PVP?
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Jaden Li
Doomheim
#61 - 2013-02-18 09:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaden Li
The baseline is too high in that case. Why should it cost me an extra 65mil every time I lose a 10mil interceptor? That's like having to leave a $65 service charge to eat a meal that costs $10.

Move the ISK sink elsewhere, and for people that actually have the money that needs to be burned. Not every 156mil-200mil sp pvp pilot has a pile of isk, or is amazing at pvp by default. Some of them can't afford such a steep baseline, perhaps they can't play 23 and 23/24ths of each day grinding isk like some people can.

Wealth and PVP Skill are not proportional to a player's skillpoints. Exponentially increasing clone costs is a broken game design based on this false assumption.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#62 - 2013-02-18 10:18:49 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Much more. ALSO I noticed clones double charge us. I paid x amount of isk for a clone after the last time I was podded. Then, after being podded again, I was charged the cost of the clone. What's up with that?


Uh?! What do you mean? When you get podded your current clone/body is destoryed and you wake up in the clone you previously stored in the medical station.

Then you pay (if you want) to buy a new backup clone stored.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2013-02-18 10:20:52 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Lets forget for a moment the Darwin issue of forgetting to upgrade/renew you medical clone and losing SP.

If free medical clones were provided to all players would this encourage more people to participate in PVP?

Players with over 100 mil SP are sometimes averted to PVP because of the cost of replacement clones at that level. Even lower level players can be drained having to replace countless clones. Without the worry of losing 10x or more the cost of the T1 firgate you are flying I think more players would be more willing to give it a try. At least on a more casual level you could JC into a implantless clone, go on a lo/null sec adventure for the afternoon and not have to worry about losing 75+ mil ISK and potential SP loss. It may just be the determining factor for alot of unsure players who wanted to get their feet wet but were afraid to.

Even most serious PVPers have alts to help augment their income to pay for their fun and also allow them access to hisec. Would it not also be beneficial to them to have one less thing to worry about? Let them concentrate on what they do best, killing.


Just wondering other opinions on this.


I do not think so.
Just don´t get podded.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#64 - 2013-02-18 10:22:35 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Lets forget for a moment the Darwin issue of forgetting to upgrade/renew you medical clone and losing SP.

If free medical clones were provided to all players would this encourage more people to participate in PVP?

Players with over 100 mil SP are sometimes averted to PVP because of the cost of replacement clones at that level. Even lower level players can be drained having to replace countless clones. Without the worry of losing 10x or more the cost of the T1 firgate you are flying I think more players would be more willing to give it a try. At least on a more casual level you could JC into a implantless clone, go on a lo/null sec adventure for the afternoon and not have to worry about losing 75+ mil ISK and potential SP loss. It may just be the determining factor for alot of unsure players who wanted to get their feet wet but were afraid to.

Even most serious PVPers have alts to help augment their income to pay for their fun and also allow them access to hisec. Would it not also be beneficial to them to have one less thing to worry about? Let them concentrate on what they do best, killing.


Just wondering other opinions on this.


My opinion - clone cost has no bearing on anything in the game. Just a minor inconvenience.

Now, implant costs though are prohibitive and prevent more people from getting into using them. Then again, there are always those who can afford to run around in Snakes and Slaves all day long.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-02-18 10:41:16 UTC
I don't see clone cost as any kind of issue. Sure, I'm still only closing in at 35M, but at the same time my pod is still generally more valuable than the average PvP'rs (or that 100M SP players) thanks to the implants and hardwires I'm always using for everything, including PvP which is what I play this game for. On top of that, if and when I lose my pod, I always risk being locked out of my home entirely, which directly locks me out of my main source of income while at it.

The way I see it is that it all boils down to one thing only, what ISK itself means to you. To me its an mean to and end, not a goal of any kind. I couldn't care less if I had only pennies in my wallet, as long as I have enough to replace the boats I lose or I have the replacement boats already bought. If I end up losing too much on any given week or month, I simply resort to doing some of the various things that make more isk, instead of lose more of it. Or possibly fly cheaper for a week or two. Outside that, ISK to me means absolutely nothing.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#66 - 2013-02-18 10:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
I do not think we should get free ones, as this would simply mean free jumping around the Eve universe.
The only issue I have with it is balance and choice. I can choose which ship, modules, ammo and implants etc. I use, but I have no real choice regarding my clone. At the moment, it seems like a punishment for longevity.

The ones that are mostly affected by this, are null sec players. They should have a cheap as chips choice to use, if they want to simply fly ceptors, or frigs.

As far as implant cost is concerned, either use them for PvP or don't. But that is always a choice.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jaden Li
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-02-18 11:09:54 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:

Just don´t get podded.


As if you have a choice when someone drops a bubble in the middle of a fleet fight.

Oh wait, you are a lowsec pvper, or just plain arrogant, nevermind.
Jaden Li
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-02-18 11:13:52 UTC
I seem to remember seeing cheap medical clones as a Faction Warfare benefit, which is nice. Lowsec doesn't have bubbles or dictors to worry about. I think the real problem is in nullsec for those that want to pvp actively and have the option of flying a cheap whelp ship.

Do we need some kind of medical clone sov benefit? Or perhaps the ability to create cheap medical clones on a Titan or Rorqual or something similar? What about NPC nullsec stations offering reduced rates on clones? Just some random ideas.
Signal11th
#69 - 2013-02-18 11:36:37 UTC
Hixeppa wrote:
No. If you've reached 100M SP and are still pissing yourself over a little clone cost, you were never going to be a pvper. Carebear on.



The usual idiot reply.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-02-18 11:44:40 UTC
Jaden Li wrote:
I seem to remember seeing cheap medical clones as a Faction Warfare benefit, which is nice. Lowsec doesn't have bubbles or dictors to worry about. I think the real problem is in nullsec for those that want to pvp actively and have the option of flying a cheap whelp ship.


it's also a problem for people getting started at PvP because you just are going to lose pods due to disorientation.

but yeah the main reason I don't like it is it just says cheaper, smaller hulls are worthless and I hate that.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-02-18 11:48:07 UTC
Free? no.

But the truth is, Eve is the only MMO that punishes players for being loyal or keeps playing after a long time. It's not even a choice (so don't even talk about "consquences" in this context"), the longer you play, the more sp you have, the more expensive it gets. More SP also doesn't correlate to players ability to afford more expensive clone (heck, my 2mil sp alt makes far more isk than this char). Funny eh?

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Jaden Li
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-02-18 12:08:25 UTC
...waiting to see how long it takes before the 'stop training your skills' brigade show up. We shouldn't have to start a new character either, starting over every ten years is not the answer to this problem.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2013-02-18 12:40:02 UTC
Jaden Li wrote:
...waiting to see how long it takes before the 'stop training your skills' brigade show up. We shouldn't have to start a new character either, starting over every ten years is not the answer to this problem.


You arnt starting over. I am about to do exactly this to keep my clone cost at 20 million.
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#74 - 2013-02-18 12:49:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ankles McGlashan
if players are using alts to get around a game mechanic then it probably isn't a very good mechanic. llook at how much whinging there is about NPC corp alts for example. why blame the behaviour and defend the causes of the behaviour? players have every incentive to split SP across alts and carebear with the ones with few combat skills trained.
kari bourza
Shield of Iron Crown
#75 - 2013-02-18 13:45:51 UTC
I would rather like to see a reduction of jump clone timer to 12 hours, because 24 hours is kind of BS
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#76 - 2013-02-18 13:46:48 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
if players are using alts to get around a game mechanic then it probably isn't a very good mechanic. llook at how much whinging there is about NPC corp alts for example. why blame the behaviour and defend the causes of the behaviour? players have every incentive to split SP across alts and carebear with the ones with few combat skills trained.


Judging from the things CCP say I'd expect they could declare it an exploit! Oh wait, unless its a big cash cow for them...
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-02-18 14:02:06 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Judging from the things CCP say I'd expect they could declare it an exploit! Oh wait, unless its a big cash cow for them...


maybe, though i only run one account with indy and trading toons. and a trading toon can be completely no skill if you don't care about fees.

ideally I'd just want to have one toon with a bunch of clones, some cheap, some augmented and a more reasonable timer that lets me jump when i log in at the same time every night. And have a pay to break the timer function as well so you can get back somewhere in a hurry but for a hefty price.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-02-18 14:15:44 UTC
Roime wrote:
If ships were free, would there be more pvp?


By the looks of SISI when it's up, I don't think so.

So where's the real problem?

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Danu Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#79 - 2013-02-18 14:34:59 UTC
Jaden Li wrote:


Wealth and PVP Skill are not proportional to a player's skillpoints. Exponentially increasing clone costs is a broken game design based on this false assumption.


Yes, change the mechanics of the game to suit Character Bazaar bought bads and people who log in for an hour a week.
Jaden Li
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-02-18 14:44:49 UTC
Maybe the game should be changed in favor of the noobs rather than the 10 year loyal customers instead then? 1 hour a week is such a strawman argument.

It's imbalanced and needs to be fixed. it's been done before, and it's already been acknowledged recently. Time for a rebalance is all. Hopefully CCP will get to it once they are finished with this round of ship balancing.