Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I made a really dumb post the other day. I expected half an effort by miners when I suggested miners make a stand to get a mechanic changed. I flew into 100's of systems chasing support and all I was met with is "it'll never work". And with some reflection I'm inclined to think that's true. Not because CCP won't change (they do and have), but because miners are (and I say this without malice) selfish and lazy.

With hindsight, the post and the idea was dumb.

I make this post in an attempt to counter the problem with some thought rather then belligerence.

Suicide ganking IS an issue. There have been countless posts on the topic, from haha posts to steps to mitigate the risk. All valid to some degree but none really address why it happens.

Many arguments stem from the fact that miners should not be risk free and nor should they be able to make isk risk free. It's said that it should be allowed for 'economic' reasons ad nauseum.

However, the same should also be said for mission runners but we know they can't be ganked without serious firepower and dedication. So the whole concept of preventing "risk free income" in highsec is void right there.

If we accept that this is the reasoning behind ganking, we must also ask why suicide ganking is actually neccessary. Why not war-dec and get the free kill? No Concord and no sec status hit. Why indeed?

It's because half the miners (an assumption) sit in NPC corps - many are bots. Even if they join a "real" corp they can simply hop corps on a war-dec. They have MADE mining a relatively risk free pasttime and suicide ganking is the ONLY way to counter it.

With this in mind why should we not seek changes to provide for greater PvP opportunities AND allow for both economic, strategic and tactical advantages by killing both miners AND missioners.

This can only be done with 2 changes imho

1) Remove the ability to stay in an NPC for greater than some arbitrary time. (eg: 90 days). Failure to join a corp involves seizure of assets until you do.

2) Once a war-dec has been declared, NO members can either leave or join during the declaration.

Ofc, the miners still need some kind of protection from mindless violence when there are now more ways to kill them, validly and legitimately. An inability to target unarmed vessels UNLESS war-decced is a potential option.

And ofc, there are those that say this makes for 'consensual PvP' and to some extent it does. But war-dec mechanics exist in highsec for a reason and we should be making these mechanics far more effective. At the moment they're as good as pointless.

The alternative is to invalidate the entire concept of highsec, remove the neccessity to war-dec, remove Concord and let players decide who lives or dies. A true sandbox.

To be frank, it won't make the slightest difference to miners whether highsec, Concord or any such measures exist. They're dying anyway. Let's get highsec missioners and all other risk free isk makers in on the killmails as well.

Discuss....

Stopped reading here, no it isn't. Been around since the start of Eve, working as intended.

I'm all for war.... but this is a really bad idea. Your going to forever be griefed by some pirate corp and will have no way out if this idea took hold. You could trap people into a corp indefinitely. In fact, as a CEO, you know what I would do with this? I would hire all the logistics and miner help I could. I would pay a signing bonus of 50 - 200 mil per member to join up, ensuring that they were well established characters with good SP. Now their SP is a commodity... you can see in the sell forums that SP = ISK when you want to sell a character... so unbeknownst to my members I will essentially be paying a tiny fraction of their SP value for their allegiance. With me so far? Now my alt (really main) in his pirate corp decs my corp. I'm fine with it... none of my members can leave. I have access to all of their coms, all corp asserts are controlled by me, I know what is in all of their hangers. Now I can go through and ransome each individual for billions. They want their characters? They will dance for me. ...but here's the thing.... the war never ends! I never let them out! I jack up the corporate tax to 50% and I let it ride forever. Result? They are broke, they are screwed, they quit eve.

Sounds like the worst mechanic ever.

Really profoundly horrid, in fact.

Fail OP.

Ask the victims.

Suicide ganking isn't an issue.

Mining been incredibly boring and low-income is.

If you made ice-mining use some sort of mini-game to get the ice, involving actually actively mining instead of just 'click roid, wait 5 mins, dump cargo, repeat' then it would,
1: Be more fun for miners
2: Reduce botting considerably (since you'd need a far smarter bot to do it)
3: Would mean miners aren't AFK so are more awake and can react to enemies warping in

Not that I would object to hulks/macs getting some more tank as well.

So you think that all the miners, who probably mine because it can be done semi passively, are suddenly going to jump for joy at the idea of some minigame being added to mining. I can see it being fun for 5 minutes. Now see them doing this minigame over and over every time you mine and then see if people still find it fun.

Let's not forget to add minigames to npcing, mission running and also pvp, weeeeeeeeee! Fun times ahead for all!

Infact, let's just take a page out of one of those Perfect World games and have everyone get 5 daily free spins on a lucky wheel, either you win an average amount of ore, a lot of ore, or you win an entire built ship. Win win!

I only mine because it doesn't require my full attention, if I wanted to play harder, I would dualbox missions instead.

Suicide ganking isn't an issue.

Victim survivability is. Its too easy to kill them.

How to fix.

CCP can help out a little bit.

Educate pilots better even though missions at least. Have training missions where they are mining much as possible and told to run away when an npc battleship shows up.

Make civillian ships tougher to kill in hp terms since they really dont have that many offenses, that way they have a better chance in high sec while low sec will have little effect of additional HP as the gankers have infitenly more time to deal with the buff.

Make active tanking better.

The rest is reliant on players, I hope eve university/agony empire (if they're still around) does teach a course on enemy evasion and hostile survivability.

Also to encourage players to stay at the rocks some sort of interaction to make them pay attention.

So gank some of the "risk free" missioners using the same argument.

Wait. You can't.

Unarmed mining vessels. Tough guy.

PvP (including getting suicide ganked) is always consensual in Eve. You agree to it when starting the client.

So block me or stfu. That's YOUR choice. idgaf