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Why is Illegal Salvaging not a crime?

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Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-18 07:31:20 UTC
This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.

But in the case of the first 2 either PVE or PVP why isn't salvaging by some random/not in fleet person not give them suspect status? If you're bubble camping some null gate and you salvage and loot your PVP kills i can understand that but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?

What this something overlooked when crimewatch 2.0 was being built?
Lexmana
#2 - 2013-02-18 07:37:52 UTC
It is not illegal. It is a wreck and you are doing space a service by salvaging them. It is an environmental service.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#3 - 2013-02-18 07:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
"Salvage" and "stealing" are an oxymoron.

Salvage belongs to the person whose cargo hold it ends up in first. Not necessarily the person who made the wreck.

Nothing was overlooked, nor should it be changed. Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-18 07:57:55 UTC
"those dirty peasants are scraping the crumbs from under my table" - the upper-lower peasantry

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#5 - 2013-02-18 08:00:10 UTC
Look at this amazing and incredible new thread on a topic never before seen in GD.

Someone feel like looking up one of the many CCP Posts telling the OP he's wrong?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-02-18 08:04:04 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2013-02-18 08:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.


So learning to make effective use of combat probes is a waste of time? Roll.

Also, Ninja Salvaging earns far more than any other common newbie activity (why do you salvage if the income from salvaging is not worth a newbie's time?). So it's a great way for them to get the ISK they need to do other things (like buy a missioner gank ship for when they step up to looting).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-18 08:13:47 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players.


I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay.


so if the income potential of salvaging is so bad, in your opinion, that even new players shouldn't bother with it, why are you whining up a storm about others being able to salvage your wrecks

also you're wrong, we toss noctises at newbies and they salvage up a storm in hubs and havens, enough to supply themselves with skillbooks and ships and other stuff

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Primary Me
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-02-18 08:15:13 UTC
What's 'illegal salvaging'?
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#10 - 2013-02-18 08:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jint Hikaru
Ken, you apparently have no clue what the word 'Salvage' means.

Ken 1138 wrote:
but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?


nobody has the right to 'Steal' salvage items from you. in fact if they manage to take them from your hold then they have either blown you up, and will be delt with by Concord, or used a hack and will be delt with by CCP. The only other way i can see how they can 'Steal' salvage from you is by accessing your corp hanger and taking it from there. In this case, its an internal corp issue.

Other than that, if the 'salvage' is still part of a wrecked ship drifting in space, you cannot claim it as yours. Its free for all, and whoever salvages it first, becomes the owner of that salvage item.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-02-18 08:15:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
So learning to make effective use of combat probes is a waste of time? Roll.


Please and not learning to scan down WHs, grav/radar/ladar/mag sites, combat ships properly. Their main purpose. Cause that has no use what so ever in Null and WH space.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2013-02-18 08:16:38 UTC
Huh... it's been awhile since this whine cropped up.

Per CCP Mitnal:
CCP Mitnal wrote:
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
GM Faolchu wrote:
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
GM Ytterbium wrote:
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
CCP Prism X wrote:
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Per CCP Incognito :
CCP Incognito wrote:
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.

(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)

How did you Veterans start?
Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-02-18 08:19:09 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Ken, you apparently have no clue what the word 'Salvage' means.



Ugh Go to a car yard somewhere and freely "salvage" some parts for you car. See what happens.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-02-18 08:20:49 UTC
heh, they even have the quotes in bbcode format

nice

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-18 08:21:05 UTC
you could say those quotes were








salvaged

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#16 - 2013-02-18 08:21:52 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Ken, you apparently have no clue what the word 'Salvage' means.



Ugh Go to a car yard somewhere and freely "salvage" some parts for you car. See what happens.



Waaaa, appliying real world situations to a game!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Mina Hiragi
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-02-18 08:26:02 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Ugh Go to a car yard somewhere and freely "salvage" some parts for you car. See what happens.


Since we're being all nonsensical real life comparison here:

Do you know how many carcinogens and other toxic chemicals are released from even a frigate-sized wreck?

Fine and jail mission runners! They're destroying the environment of New Eden!
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#18 - 2013-02-18 08:26:36 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage?

By my estimation, about 30-50 million ISK per hour if they're not afraid to swipe the choice loot too. Though probably more like 20 due to low astrometrics skills and inexperience. Beats low-level mission running by a fair margin and doesn't require you to grind abstract standings with faceless NPC corps. More importantly, it's fun!

As for essential skills and gameplay - ninja salvagers quickly learn all about probing, NPC behavior (in missions far above their skill level), Crimewatch mechanics, bookmarks & safespots and ship fitting principles. But by far the most meaningful skill they pick up is how to take advantage of other players. That's a skill that will benefit them wherever they end up in New Eden.

"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk

Be careful what you wish for.
Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-18 08:27:57 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Huh... it's been awhile since this whine cropped up.


I'm not gonna quote the whole thing but it clears everything up nicely. Better off not fixing it then. Can't say i'm surprised.
Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-02-18 08:28:56 UTC
Mina Hiragi wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:
Ugh Go to a car yard somewhere and freely "salvage" some parts for you car. See what happens.


Since we're being all nonsensical real life comparison here:

Do you know how many carcinogens and other toxic chemicals are released from even a frigate-sized wreck?

Fine and jail mission runners! They're destroying the environment of New Eden!


Ok i'll be fair that one made me laugh.
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