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Mining ships and EVE design philosophy.

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turmajin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#361 - 2013-02-17 18:28:06 UTC
Ok i see the arguement has moved away from the ganking question ,not by much but still a sign its not realy vailid.Consider this for years 0.0 has been crying out for a proper industrial base,maybe just maybe CCP have been listening and as a 1st step have given us rubuffed mining ships,and one mining ship,able to hold its own somewhat in 0.0 THE SKIFF.Now as mining is the base for industry,litterally everything comes from it .the 1st step may have been taken in giving proper industry to 0.0 ,allowing null players to do different things rather than watch jabber all day ect for a CTA or Akraris sitution to develop.Introduce proper industrial arrays for industrial slots chemical reactions ,ship building ect for stations and maybe more low sec minerals in asteroid belts ,and just maybe proper industry can be done in 0.0.The SKIFF then becomes a must have ship,as it can tank properly against rats ,and maybe against being PvPed.Rather than whail like babies over it ,look at what might be possible from the situation.Also with proper industry in 0.0 HS ganking just becomes a fun thing to do for players,like Hulkaggeddon .Albet maybe more expensive ,but given c
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#362 - 2013-02-17 18:29:56 UTC
none of the mining ships can hold their own in 0.0 in any way shape or form because a tank alone is not sufficient in the actual sandbox

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#363 - 2013-02-17 18:35:55 UTC
turmajin wrote:
Ok i see the arguement has moved away from the ganking question ,not by much but still a sign its not realy vailid.Consider this for years 0.0 has been crying out for a proper industrial base,maybe just maybe CCP have been listening and as a 1st step have given us rubuffed mining ships,and one mining ship,able to hold its own somewhat in 0.0 THE SKIFF.Now as mining is the base for industry,litterally everything comes from it .the 1st step may have been taken in giving proper industry to 0.0 ,allowing null players to do different things rather than watch jabber all day ect for a CTA or Akraris sitution to develop.Introduce proper industrial arrays for industrial slots chemical reactions ,ship building ect for stations and maybe more low sec minerals in asteroid belts ,and just maybe proper industry can be done in 0.0.The SKIFF then becomes a must have ship,as it can tank properly against rats ,and maybe against being PvPed.Rather than whail like babies over it ,look at what might be possible from the situation.Also with proper industry in 0.0 HS ganking just becomes a fun thing to do for players,like Hulkaggeddon .Albet maybe more expensive ,but given c


The skiff used to have a built in warp stab which was far more usefull for 0.0 than a lot of buffer.
Kate stark
#364 - 2013-02-17 18:37:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The skiff used to have a built in warp stab which was far more usefull for 0.0 than a lot of buffer.


which was still pretty useless because aside from mining mercoxit it had terrible yield.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2013-02-17 18:38:15 UTC
turmajin wrote:
Ok i see the arguement has moved away from the ganking question ,not by much but still a sign its not realy vailid.Consider this for years 0.0 has been crying out for a proper industrial base,maybe just maybe CCP have been listening and as a 1st step have given us rubuffed mining ships,and one mining ship,able to hold its own somewhat in 0.0 THE SKIFF.Now as mining is the base for industry,litterally everything comes from it .the 1st step may have been taken in giving proper industry to 0.0 ,allowing null players to do different things rather than watch jabber all day ect for a CTA or Akraris sitution to develop.Introduce proper industrial arrays for industrial slots chemical reactions ,ship building ect for stations and maybe more low sec minerals in asteroid belts ,and just maybe proper industry can be done in 0.0.The SKIFF then becomes a must have ship,as it can tank properly against rats ,and maybe against being PvPed.Rather than whail like babies over it ,look at what might be possible from the situation.Also with proper industry in 0.0 HS ganking just becomes a fun thing to do for players,like Hulkaggeddon .Albet maybe more expensive ,but given c


The argument remains where it has been the entire time, the fact that mining ships do not follow EVE design philosophy as stated by CCP Greyscale. You stated nothing in affirmation or conflict with this argument and completely ignored it. You are attempting to move the goal posts and going "lol no" to the well reasoned argument in the op, also you really need to learn the space bar.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#366 - 2013-02-17 18:46:39 UTC
see one of my previous posts in this thread

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#367 - 2013-02-17 18:51:43 UTC
Arduemont wrote:

Just because something isn't used much doesn't mean it's broken.




Yes, yes it does, thats why we have just had a massive balance pass on frigates, destroyers and cruisers with CCP stating the reason for the balance pass was because a good chunk of ships were never used because theyr were useless.

The skiff is pointless because the mack can tank while being max yeild with no defencive mods fitted. There is no balance in the barge lineup.
Kate stark
#368 - 2013-02-17 18:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
baltec1 wrote:
The skiff is pointless because the mack can tank while being max yeild with no defencive mods fitted. There is no balance in the barge lineup.

let's not forget, if your figure of 16k ehp is accurate, the hulk can achieve the same without having to sacrifice yield but it does need defensive modules (although, none of them even need to be t2), assuming you are using it for it's intended purpose.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#369 - 2013-02-17 19:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sariah Kion
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have removed some trolling and personal attacks from this thread. Sheesh, people.


You sure did.

Looks like you missed some of the goon trolling and offensive stuff.

Of course you did.....


Andski wrote:
notice the vast difference in the literacy levels between those saying "yeah, no, barge pilots should make a choice too" and those saying "no we can't be bothered to learn anything beyond running our mining macros"

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Kate stark
#370 - 2013-02-17 19:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
Sariah Kion wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have removed some trolling and personal attacks from this thread. Sheesh, people.


You sure did.

Looks like you missed some of the goon trolling and offensive stuff.

Of course you did.....


Andski wrote:
notice the vast difference in the literacy levels between those saying "yeah, no, barge pilots should make a choice too" and those saying "no we can't be bothered to learn anything beyond running our mining macros"


how is that offensive, or incorrect?
or trolling, for that matter.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#371 - 2013-02-17 19:31:21 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have removed some trolling and personal attacks from this thread. Sheesh, people.


You sure did.

Looks like you missed some of the goon trolling and offensive stuff.

Of course you did.....


Andski wrote:
notice the vast difference in the literacy levels between those saying "yeah, no, barge pilots should make a choice too" and those saying "no we can't be bothered to learn anything beyond running our mining macros"


how is that offensive, or incorrect?


Ad hominems are perfectly fine but calling a goon a goon is personal and offensive and will be nipped.

Welcome to Goonswarm Online.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#372 - 2013-02-17 19:36:39 UTC
that's not an ad hominem

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#373 - 2013-02-17 19:42:43 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have removed some trolling and personal attacks from this thread. Sheesh, people.


You sure did.

Looks like you missed some of the goon trolling and offensive stuff.

Of course you did.....



Discussing moderation? not really a good idea. ISD and CCP have the final word on what is and what is not trolling or a personal attack, if they left it in the thread, they don't consider it trolling or a personal attack. Got a problem with it, take it up with someone from ISD or CCP in private.

Mining ships are broken, there is no balance, the Mackinaw is king.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#374 - 2013-02-17 19:46:52 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Ad hominems are perfectly fine but calling a goon a goon is personal and offensive and will be nipped.

Welcome to Goonswarm Online.


a comment directed towards botters offends you? are you a botter

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kate stark
#375 - 2013-02-17 19:50:55 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mining ships are broken, there is no balance, the Mackinaw is king.

don't say that, they'll produce an awful paragraph about how you're wrong and you're just upset you can't gank exhumers now!

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#376 - 2013-02-17 19:54:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Ad hominems are perfectly fine but calling a goon a goon is personal and offensive and will be nipped.

Welcome to Goonswarm Online.


a comment directed towards botters offends you? are you a botter


Im not offended at all.

I fight hypocrisy whenever I see it and in all its forms goon.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#377 - 2013-02-17 19:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sariah Kion
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have removed some trolling and personal attacks from this thread. Sheesh, people.


You sure did.

Looks like you missed some of the goon trolling and offensive stuff.

Of course you did.....




Mining ships are broken, there is no balance, the Mackinaw is king.


Ganker tears really are delicious.

Say hi to John for me.

Delicious Tears

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#378 - 2013-02-17 20:01:45 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:


Ganker tears really are delicious.

Say hi to John for me.

Delicious Tears


Pointing out a real balance issue is not "tears".

Infact 90% of what people around here think are tears are infact not tears. People such as yourself need to learn the difference because you just look daft when you make these mistakes.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#379 - 2013-02-17 20:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Sariah Kion wrote:

Ganker tears really are delicious.

Say hi to John for me.

Delicious Tears


Who is John? and where am I crying?

The Mackinaw is king, it tanks well, when people can be bothered to fit for it and it has a humungous cargo hold, Hulks have a much smaller ore hold and are pretty crap outside of fleet mining, Retrievers can't tank because they're made of belly button fluff, Covetors are rarely used because the Mackinaw exists, Procurors and Skiffs can tank like mofos but lose out on the ore hold capacity and are much for fun when used as bait. I can fly all of the above ships, I do so on a regular basis, guess which one I fly in highsec?

My ganking habits are nothing to do with the matter at hand, they are merely me removing the competition, explosively.

Nice selective quoting btw.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#380 - 2013-02-17 20:06:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

Ganker tears really are delicious.

Say hi to John for me.

Delicious Tears


Who is John? and where am I crying?

The Mackinaw is king, it tanks well, when people can be bothered to fit it and it has a humungous cargo hold, Hulks have a smaller ore hold and are pretty crap outside of fleet mining, Retrievers can't tank because they're made of belly button fluff, Covetors are rarely used because the Mackinaw exists, Procurors and Skiffs can tank like mofos but lose out on the ore hold.

Nice selective quoting btw.


Also the mack tanks enough with no defencive mods to make it unprofitable to gank. Given that the only risk in high sec are gankers it means the skiff and procuror are simply not needed.