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[REMINDER] The great ship skill change of summer 2013

First post First post
Author
CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-02-08 11:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Gargant
Hey everyone,

In an effort to make sure everyone knows about the upcoming changes, we are going to keep this thread stickied here until the summer expansion to remind everyone that these changes are going live then.

Please make sure to read CCP Ytterbium's devblog here, and voice your opinion and feedback in the correct thread, here.

This is a very sizable change and it is imperative everyone knows about it.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-08 12:47:10 UTC
first
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#3 - 2013-02-08 12:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
If you could fly it before, you can fly it after

If you could fly it before, you can fly it after

If you could fly it before, you can fly it after



Just in case


Also,


If you have a skill injected now, you can train that skill in the future NO MATTER WHAT!

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Callic Veratar
#4 - 2013-02-08 21:32:57 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
If you could fly it before, you can fly it after

If you could fly it before, you can fly it after

If you could fly it before, you can fly it after

It won't help.
Keine Arvok
Semper Fidelis Foedero
#5 - 2013-02-17 12:14:41 UTC
I am concered about the Orca, barge, exumer and Freighter changes

I have trained the current requirement that bonus the ships role

however in this change i will lose the ability to fly the freighter as i do not have advance spaceship command V. i will also lose barge and exumer to the frigate skill

Also will adding ore industrial skill to Orca change or add role bonuses per skill?

I need more details to these changes than "if i can fly it now, i can fly it later"
Imsopov II
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-18 02:00:05 UTC
Keine Arvok wrote:
I am concered about the Orca, barge, exumer and Freighter changes

I have trained the current requirement that bonus the ships role

however in this change i will lose the ability to fly the freighter as i do not have advance spaceship command V. i will also lose barge and exumer to the frigate skill

Also will adding ore industrial skill to Orca change or add role bonuses per skill?

I need more details to these changes than "if i can fly it now, i can fly it later"



I agree, needs more details. With freighters are they going to give us advanced spaceship command V or will we lose the ability to fly a freighter
KiwiMatt
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-02-19 02:24:13 UTC
Can anyone clarify a point for me please.

any racial destroyer or cruiser skill i have trained to level 4 or 5 has now been a waste of time as no longer a prerequisite for anything?

I know I have got use out of it over the years by it being a prerequisite for other things but is that no longer the case?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2013-02-19 02:45:24 UTC
KiwiMatt wrote:
Can anyone clarify a point for me please.

any racial destroyer or cruiser skill i have trained to level 4 or 5 has now been a waste of time as no longer a prerequisite for anything?

I know I have got use out of it over the years by it being a prerequisite for other things but is that no longer the case?


Sure, I can clarify that. Sort of.

First off, there is currently no racial destroyer skill. So this response will be predicated on the idea that you're talking about racial frigate instead.

That out of the way, [racial] frigate 3 will be required for [racial] destroyer. In turn, [racial] destroyer 3 will be required for [racial] cruiser. Cruiser then is the requirement for battlecruiser is the requirement for battleship is the requirement for cap ships. Cap ships will also see new requirements added.

So yes, technically [racial] [frigate/cruiser] 4 could be considered a waste if you only trained it to open up the next largest ships. Likewise, [racial] battleship 4 and 5 could be considered a waste if all you were going for was capital ships.

These skills will not be reimbursed; they are still useful and their core mechanics haven't changed one bit. They will still provide the same boost to the same ships that they do now.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2013-02-19 02:54:29 UTC
Imsopov II wrote:
Keine Arvok wrote:
I am concered about the Orca, barge, exumer and Freighter changes

I have trained the current requirement that bonus the ships role

however in this change i will lose the ability to fly the freighter as i do not have advance spaceship command V. i will also lose barge and exumer to the frigate skill

Also will adding ore industrial skill to Orca change or add role bonuses per skill?

I need more details to these changes than "if i can fly it now, i can fly it later"



I agree, needs more details. With freighters are they going to give us advanced spaceship command V or will we lose the ability to fly a freighter


This is all clarified ad naseum in the thread, but here's the tl;dr:

You can still fly all those ships. ASC is required to plug in the freighter book. Mining frigate is likewise there as a requirement to plug in the barge book. Since you already have the book plugged in, nothing changes.

As a bit of arcana, it used to be true that you had to meet all the skill prerequisites to train a skill you had plugged in. Ytterbium had this changed, bob bless him, as noted here.
KiwiMatt
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-02-19 12:10:04 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
KiwiMatt wrote:
Can anyone clarify a point for me please.

any racial destroyer or cruiser skill i have trained to level 4 or 5 has now been a waste of time as no longer a prerequisite for anything?

I know I have got use out of it over the years by it being a prerequisite for other things but is that no longer the case?


Sure, I can clarify that. Sort of.

First off, there is currently no racial destroyer skill. So this response will be predicated on the idea that you're talking about racial frigate instead.

That out of the way, [racial] frigate 3 will be required for [racial] destroyer. In turn, [racial] destroyer 3 will be required for [racial] cruiser. Cruiser then is the requirement for battlecruiser is the requirement for battleship is the requirement for cap ships. Cap ships will also see new requirements added.

So yes, technically [racial] [frigate/cruiser] 4 could be considered a waste if you only trained it to open up the next largest ships. Likewise, [racial] battleship 4 and 5 could be considered a waste if all you were going for was capital ships.

These skills will not be reimbursed; they are still useful and their core mechanics haven't changed one bit. They will still provide the same boost to the same ships that they do now.


Sorry... had a brainfart.. yes i was referring to racial frigates and cruisers, also battleships now you mention it...

thanks for the reply and explanation
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-19 12:17:16 UTC
Keine Arvok wrote:
however in this change i will lose the ability to fly the freighter as i do not have advance spaceship command V. i will also lose barge and exumer to the frigate skill


No and no.

The ships are not gaining pre-reqs. The skills are. The skill pre-reqs are checked when injected (Dev has clarified that). Hence you will still be able to fly the ship and train the skill. The only thing you won't be able to do without advance spaceship command V is inject another racial freighter skill.

Stated times in the dev blog, stated numerous times in the discussion thread.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#12 - 2013-03-07 00:41:48 UTC
just to clarify...
if I train all racial frigs to rank 3 and my general destroyer skill to let's say 4 when the update is out instead of 1 destroyer skill I get 4 racial ones instead? right?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2013-03-07 08:02:03 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
just to clarify...
if I train all racial frigs to rank 3 and my general destroyer skill to let's say 4 when the update is out instead of 1 destroyer skill I get 4 racial ones instead? right?


Yes. That's it exactly.
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-03-07 20:59:24 UTC
Quick question that I've been looking an answer for:

Gallente cruiser V
Caldari Cruiser IV
BC V

Will the racial BC become V for both or does the prior skill (cruiser in this case) affect the level to which the Racial one will be trained to when the change occurs?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2013-03-07 21:17:04 UTC
Patrakele wrote:
Quick question that I've been looking an answer for:

Gallente cruiser V
Caldari Cruiser IV
BC V

Will the racial BC become V for both or does the prior skill (cruiser in this case) affect the level to which the Racial one will be trained to when the change occurs?


5 for both. Racial cruiser level need only be sufficient to fly BCs.
Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-03-07 21:25:23 UTC
racial BC to V both gallente and caldari according to the post, well you need racial cruiser at III only
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#17 - 2013-03-08 00:35:17 UTC
according to eve mon with my current stats in order to get:
racial frigs (all 4) to rank 4
destroyer V
racial cruisers (all 4) to rank 3
Battlecruiser V

will take 44 days

I got time before the update? and those skills will give me all benefits right?
Cad B'ane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-03-08 01:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Cad B'ane
Someone talk to me like I’m 9. Better yet, talk to me like I’m 4. Been reading about this update and asking around and I get a different answer each time. Listed below is what I have and the questions that I have about this update (Sorry for the noobish questions, only 3 months into this game and I thank you for your patience)

What I have:

All Racial Frigs to level 4

All Racial Cruisers to level 3

Battlecruiser to level 4

Destroyer to level 4


Question is, do I need to train for Battlecruiser 5 and Destroyer 5?


Thank you for the patience and game well all!
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#19 - 2013-03-08 01:24:57 UTC
iirc after the update instead of dessy 4 and BC4 you will get 4 different racial versions of each on same rank.

so you should level them to 5 as it will save you the time later leveling 4 different skills for each one of those.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2013-03-08 16:29:12 UTC
Cad B'ane wrote:
Someone talk to me like I’m 9. Better yet, talk to me like I’m 4. Been reading about this update and asking around and I get a different answer each time. Listed below is what I have and the questions that I have about this update (Sorry for the noobish questions, only 3 months into this game and I thank you for your patience)

What I have:

All Racial Frigs to level 4

All Racial Cruisers to level 3

Battlecruiser to level 4

Destroyer to level 4


Question is, do I need to train for Battlecruiser 5 and Destroyer 5?


Thank you for the patience and game well all!


tl;dr: No, you don't need to. But you should strongly consider it.

You do not need to train either skill to 5. If you have other training priorities -- and at 3 months in, it's entirely reasonable that you do -- than you might want to work on those things instead.

However, there's a cost to that: if in the future you want to train more than 1 race's destroyer or battlecruiser to 5 it will take longer. In the short- to medium-term you might well benefit more from any support skills you train instead though. In the long-run it's pretty straightforward though: train those skills now. Between the two skills you're looking at the difference between ~1 month of training and ~4 months of training.

So yeah. Tradeoffs. No right answer. I know that for me training BC5 on a relatively fresh combat alt makes sense, but that's because I won't even be undocking her for the next several months (and possibly ever; I think she's headed straight for the character bazaar when the time comes). But on an active main the lines are blurred: those support skills really do make a huge difference in how well a character performs now. And would you rather have a more effective character now or save 3 months of training sometime down the road?
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