Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Oh, sure, I'm happy to accept that solo/very-small-gang ships are under-represented on that list, because they're being crowded out by fleet numbers. It's just that, despite this, I don't think that the list is giving a misleading picture of the value of blasters in those small-scale environments, because I believe that the most important abilities in those environments are are flexibility, mobility and damage projection, both of which AC-boats possess and blasterboats lack, getting only a fairly small raw damage advantage in return.

But if that analysis is correct, then I'm worried that the current attempts to balance blasters properly in those environments - easier fitting, more tracking, more DPS - will fail because they don't address AC-boats' critical advantages of mobility, flexibility and damage projection. But if we do make blasterboats more flexible and mobile with greater damage projection, then we've just made blasters into an AC knock-off and homogenised the weapon systems, which will annoy everyone. But that leaves only one alternative, of nerfing the other weapons systems... which will also annoy everyone.

I don't see any easy way out of this, unfortunately.

Hey Phantom, thanks for shitting on my thread that had nothing to do with the changes specified here. Who pissed in your cornflakes.

Fair enough, but let's put it right since it's "ONE" of those I've chosen to forget.

"Special Ability: 200% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage

Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level
Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level"

Speed, agility, web bonus and dmg projection since small hybrids don't have issues to hit stuff or apply dmg because no one works resists on that ship size but buffer.

Now the Dram pilot has on top of his speed and dmg selection/projection one of the best weapons out there the DD doesn't : enough drone bay to use ECM drones.

But it's fair enough, no one is intended to work/play alone so once the speed cpu pg of Dramiel is nerfed they will be close to balanced, but it's just my opinion.

Indeed.

Since so many seem to have IRL convulsions at the single idea blaster get some more range...

Without reaching the 23Km op distance of large pulses why should gallente be stuck at 7? -why shouldn't that base op range reach the spike of 15km whatsoever and cut the fall of by 50% or even 75% ?

They would still be the closest range weapon system but seems everyone and his little saints are preaching this never happens, why so much hate?

Then the idea of leaving blasters has they are and work on drones it's another fair route to follow.

The "all drones" debate displeases me because I just don't like it: drones have poor IA and interface, bad coding or have issues due to other mechanics, not even sure all the skills/mods bonus are applied so I'll not get in to that debate but are mostly used for the "afk" factor

The mix weapons/drones is already there for every one in every race so what could bring some flavour to gallente and make them have powerfull drones filling the gap with other races?

-Why not number of drones out x2 with no changes on drones

-Why not limit the drones size to the hull size but give them 100% (could be 20% per level or 25) base bonus to speed, tracking, hit points, dmg/rep AND warfare attributes

Could be some interesting route if the drones based hulls get some of it but not make them the fotom 10 drones out all sizes dmg type 100% dmg and whatever else.

I'm still a fervent defensor of blasters getting range and loose fall off has I am of giving rails what they're getting just right now on sisi: no more tracking penalty on ammo, weapon tracking bonus increased and dmg multiplier.
I guess T2 ammo will become really valuable in these circumstances and will increase significantly their effectiveness, wil it be enough? - has I said earlier, since they become competitive I'm all for it, not wanting the next fotom gun system for a penny.

Now for blasters I'm sad to see the ammo doesn't get rid of the tracking penalty or the hulls getting some 5% web effectiveness or 10% range

I'm also not convinced about these either because of the poor drones AI and UI. As these two didn't really change much over the last few years, I guess it will probably never happen.

I said that I accepted the logic the first time you posted this argument.

But that argument doesn't say that Gallente are better than Minmatar, or even "good", in solo or small-gang, it only tells us that the E-K list of popular ships is not useful for telling us how good Gallente boats are in those environments. I would argue that in solo/small gang, the favoured abilities are mobility, flexibility, the ability to avoid getting tackled and to apply DPS from outside web range. All of which fundamentally favour Minmatar. I believe evidence for this comes from Vaga/Deimos and Angel/Serpentis balance and popularity, and the rise of shield Canes and nano-Drakes at the expense of armour-Canes and HAM Drakes that operate inside web range.

I've been using Minmatar ships since November 2007. Funny! I've never made a character without being able to fly Minmatar ships, along with Caldari, Gallente or Amarr.

After spending sometime trying to focus on Gallente play style exclusively, with my average style of intense game-play. I have to say, I'm starting to understand why so many hate Ecm as much as they do. Thing is! I've always been able to engage fleets that use falcons (shoot it) or just leave if they're fielded (Drake, Hurricane). Fully committing to an engagement, kited, immobilized by stasis webifiers and even worse a warp scrambler. Was not something I had to deal with alot above frigate level, unless I choose too.

The linear concept of specialising in close range engagements, with in a dynamic enviroment is R3TARDED. Once another factors are introduce into a engagement @ multiple ranges beyond your ability to project damage. Mobility supiror to your own and relative effective hit points. You're @ a great disadvantage. Mind you, increasing one factor alone would increase your survival rate greatly (increasing damage projection). Increased mobility alone will not diminish your survival rate if you must commit to a engagement, with the proliferation of ecm (drones), neutralizer and the number of pilots in-game (ganks or blobs).

Increasing defense alone. Is not very beneficial either. I'll use active defense setups as an example for this. With certain ships and setups. A pilot is able to engage multiple pilots, without the aid of another pilot. How much this scales has alot to do with setups and incoming damage. Unfortunately, other factors can be introduced into a situation. That cannot be solved by defense of incoming damage alone (ecm, neutralizer). Not to mention, there's a limit to the amount of incoming damage a ship can mitigate actively.


(Mind you, I could limit my losses in close range engagements by being more conservative and flying frigates. Even so, I think I would only be able to limit my losses to 1:4 (above frigates). Instead of 1:1 or less. This is in contrast to mobile pvp where I could do 1:10, while being alot more reckless.)


It has been clear to me for awhile. Ships specialised or limited to close range engagments do not scale well outside of frigate class of ships.

As the player base increases. Solo pvp will become more difficult because their just more pilots, which means more and larger fleets. Which would effect gallente ships negatively. Ships that lack mobility will not be obsolete, in my opinion. In fact ships specialising in close range engagements are not broken. They're just not as viable as ships that are able to project damage and maintain mobility. Losses are alot greater and engage-able targets are limited (just not good comparatively).

When I think about this. I often believe it reflects poorly on what I believe 'skill' is. I'm not sure how skillfull I must be if infact I noticed where the game was moving and I did; Adapted to the changing enviroment and choose the ships that were more suited to it. In effect, I choose easy mode over hard mode.

To sum this all up. This is not about blasters. This is about a concept. Close range pvp is very hard compared to more mobile tactics. When I look @ a class where this style of engagement works best (frigates). I asked myself why that is. Frigate effective hit points are relatively low compared to the amount of damage most frigates are capable of projecting and applying. If CCP were to scale this, then effective hit points of battlecruisers would be lower and damage would be the same (for the most part). Medium blasters would have a significant increase in optimal and falloff.

Look! Most things on the frigate level is relatively the same, with damage being substantially high. Frigate engagements end quickly. Fast enough for numbers not to matter as much, because things explode long before back up arrives. Can CCP scale this?

Gypso now understands what I've been saying for awhile now. Pilots may not like the Idea of mirroring Auto-cannons in anyway, but that is what has to be done. Engaging in close range engagements is not impossible, but it's very hard (not including frigate engagements). So, most will avoid this style of pvp and do. Personally I'll be going back to the more mobile style of engaging. Losses do matter for someone who solo pvp's. Losing ships consistantly is hard to keep up with (isk wise). Flying ships that minimize losses and increases engagable targets is prefered.


-proxyyyy

In paper they are, always in paper those numbers are higher for hybrids than every other weapon system.

This is why CCP can't or doesn't know how to fix it. Because once each gun type is fitted and dmg/tracking mods fitted + ammo then you see hybrids have the worst or the second worst tracking.

Add: crap ammo, ammo penalty, dmg mods =low slots, not enough mids to fit the required mwd+web+scram+cap injector AND add TC's

Then you can figure fast why shield brutix mega or hype can be deadly at close range:3 or 4 mfs 2 or 3 Te's

This brings another discussion, but related to, the whole concept of rails/blaster+boats+armor tanking is clearly failing.

more dps is a good thing when you have such a limited range to use the weapons... but i think a big boost to blasters could be found in a giant increase to alpha (with a reduced rof to compensate)... that way you are "still" doing great dps (10%increase) but also when you do hit you are doing ung-dly alpha (50%) more... which would make blasters alot more desierable imo...


Bird thing... well with boosted close range tech II ammo for rails and its negative affects being removed plus a 10% increase in base damage... would rails not be the mid range option for gallente?

i still want 8 tech II ammos for hybrids.. 4 for caldari playstyle
4 for gallente playstyle...

I'll be honest, this is my first MMO. I chose Gallente not realizing that there was infact a MASSIVE amount of research that should have been done prior to selecting a race to fly. Being a low SP player sucks, but being a a low SP Gallente player is like being a flying space vagina in a **** village. I personallly can't wait to see these changes. Maybe I'll finally be able to HIT something...

I have tried a variety of tanks and I routinely find that I'm either to soft, can't buffer enough, or can't rep enough to withstand much for very long, where as a ship like a Drake or a Cane can withstand me just fine.

I hit like a girl at range, and up close you can't hit the broad side of a barn (if you can get close ...). I never understood why the blasters can't get into range or why they can't hit anything when they are in range.

I've also wondered why Drones don't seem to do enough damage. Seems like if you were a Drone Race you'd have bandwidth for days and Drone Control Units wouldn't be restricted to only your races cap ships. If you can't get quality, the age old solution is ofcourse quantity... seems like a fair trade to me?

But all in all, I am pleased with the suggested tweaks and I think the Assault Warfare Links are a fantastic Idea. I'm very much looking forward to not being ashamed of being a strictly Gallente pilot.


Thank you for looking into this =)