These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

DUST514 article in Develop

Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Madam Steele
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-10-26 15:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Madam Steele
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Quote:
Dust 514 battles take place not in Eve’s star systems, but on a select number of planets.


eh wait what? Not in EVE?
oh nvm
but select planets? What select planets O.o
The "select"ness of the planets available could well make the Dusties useless. Fights on rocks they dont have access to.


I think they are referring to the various types of terrain maps the players will initially fight on, not the actual EVE planets where the fighting will occur.

EDIT: Oops you caught yourself. Nvm.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-26 15:13:49 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:
Hmm...

The difference is the slow uptake model is that EVE had something to do and explore...even if you couldn't own a battleship due to cost or skills, it was something you could see on the horizon as your future.

Applying the same psychology to an FPS...how is that supposed to work?

Are there going to be any areas to explore? Doubt it - although providing intel to other players for ISK would be a frickin' cool sideline for players...cloaked snipers with binoculars scoping territory and feeding back...

In an FPS, your future is what? The promise of wealth? The respect? more frags?

(snipping for clarity, not for lack of merit)


I think that what Sony/CCP hopes is to extend on the corp structure and community effects.

I'm not that sure that the psychology of an FPS player is that different.

Sure, you can't provide the skills, the tank, the dps or experience of your corpies.
But you can still learn and use the resources you have in an intelligent way.

Which in turn will get you status/swag/cred with your friends and peers (and possibly even enemies).

There appears to be a feeling amongst the PC (and Mac) users that all console users are (pre-)teens with ADD.

I've got friends (really I do!) and friends of friends who are both 40 and 50+, but who likes playing console games because they can't be arsed to get a Pc/Mac gaming rig.

And I've also noted (not at least in EvE) that your classic console-kid functions perfectly in a Corp in EvE, as long as they get some form of notice and respect for listening, learning, trying and doing their best.

So while you have several valid points, I don't think we should dismiss the "console crowd" that easily.


Nonsense, of course it´s like this:

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/140/2/2/PC_Gaming_Master_Race_by_Claidheam_Righ.jpg

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-10-26 15:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Quote:
Dust players will need to complete contracts to earn their ISK and buy weapons, amour, items and support vessels. If they fail too many times and run out of in-game currency, they’ll need their credit card.


Yeah, even if I had a console I think that idea would turn me off. Hey look, its that pay to win thing people were afraid would get into EVE (that technically already has once you think of things like Cerebral accelerators that can be bought with real money and brought in game). Inevitable? Yup. Here to stay? Damn straight. Hope they dont get enough money from this that they think this would be a good thing to do in NeX

Funny how the entire article is all "doom and gloom" about consoles.
It kind of fights with itself, going on about how cool Dust is gonna be but {in the ashes of the console market}.

Quote:
“It would be a risk not doing this,” Gunnarsson responds. “It would be a risk to think that everything will work if we just sit still”.

His response couldn’t be more appropriate. The entire console business is grinding to an unbearable halt.


Quote:
“If you look at a developer’s bottom-line for a classic retail box model; when you subtract the publisher’s margin, the retailer’s margin, the platform margin, and so on, you’re left with maybe a quarter of the suggested retail price,” Gunnarsson says.

“But in the MMO space, the path of success is based on vast multiples of micro-transactions, or subscriptions or DLC. It’s a long-term strategy. We think it’s one that could be hugely beneficial to ourselves as well as Sony.”


just a neat quote

Quote:
Triple-A has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The intoxicating belief is that success demands budget-obliterating production values. Success demands studios to be more concerned about what they’ve left out of a game than what they’ve put in. The result is an organised circle of studios mimicking each other, and all spending a fortune to blend in rather than stand out.

Dust 514, as the videos will attest, is somewhat bland and vacant. There are no rich worlds of remarkable detail, but acres of basic and bandwidth-friendly war zones. What the critics will be tempted to say is that this is unacceptable in the modern age of triple-A games. If they do they are just as much part of the problem.

Because detailed textures, phenomenal mocap and a trip to Abbey Road shouldn’t be what gives a project its ‘triple-A’ status. Entertainment remains the true and sometimes forgotten measure of a game’s worth.


Like that one too. Some of my most long term played games have come from the ten buck bin and were never huge triple A titles. Sword of the Stars, EVE, MOO3 (dunno if that was AAA back when it launched or not). Hell Im STILL playing two of those games lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-10-26 15:58:27 UTC
The one thing this article tells me is the average gamer cares less about things like graphics, and all the other little things that get added onto games and more about things like fun

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#25 - 2011-10-26 15:59:54 UTC
Select planets means that at first DUST battles will be restricted to the less extreme planet types (Temperate, barren, Ice, I'm not sure about Oceanic but I hope so). It will probably be a later development that will allow combat in the more extreme environments (Lava, Plasma, Storm, Gas).

The tech to survive and fight in those more extreme environments will likely be the basis of a variety of expansions.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#26 - 2011-10-26 16:05:31 UTC
Also of note, battles on planets in Empire space will be against NPC's at first, which suits the needs of the "casual gamer" very well.

Corporate sponsored combat involving payment (or indeed corp against corp since DUST players can form their own corps or fully join existing EVE corps), player vs player action, and affecting SOV in EVE will be restricted to Null sec for obvious reasons.

It really isn't clear if player vs player in high or low sec empire space will eventually happen (I hope so) but they will have to be able to decouple the SOV affecting aspect and take things like war declarations into consideration.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-10-26 16:39:37 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Also of note, battles on planets in Empire space will be against NPC's at first, which suits the needs of the "casual gamer" very well.

Corporate sponsored combat involving payment (or indeed corp against corp since DUST players can form their own corps or fully join existing EVE corps), player vs player action, and affecting SOV in EVE will be restricted to Null sec for obvious reasons.

It really isn't clear if player vs player in high or low sec empire space will eventually happen (I hope so) but they will have to be able to decouple the SOV affecting aspect and take things like war declarations into consideration.


Yeah Id imagine the gankers would be pissed and whine that CCP is getting soft if they dont allow you to pvp in Dust in High sec

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#28 - 2011-10-26 17:15:41 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Also of note, battles on planets in Empire space will be against NPC's at first, which suits the needs of the "casual gamer" very well.

Corporate sponsored combat involving payment (or indeed corp against corp since DUST players can form their own corps or fully join existing EVE corps), player vs player action, and affecting SOV in EVE will be restricted to Null sec for obvious reasons.

It really isn't clear if player vs player in high or low sec empire space will eventually happen (I hope so) but they will have to be able to decouple the SOV affecting aspect and take things like war declarations into consideration.


Yeah Id imagine the gankers would be pissed and whine that CCP is getting soft if they dont allow you to pvp in Dust in High sec

Big smile

Well, it somewhat makes sense in the case of a war dec. It would be odd to be able to attack players in space directly but be unable to do the same thing to their ground installations.

I'm more interested in the affects DUST will have on SOV. A lot of economic warfare takes place now in Null, thus the general discontent with camping cloakers inhibiting a sov holders ability for it's citizens to make money and keep their indices up.

I can easily see another avenue of this nature to be slipping a DUST force onto various planets if (asssuming they succeed) they can disrupt the income and more importantly the Sov indices of a system. It makes sense that as you lose control over the planets in a system it makes it incrementally more difficult to maintain normal economic (and possibly defensive) activities. It goes without saying that no matter how many planets are taken this should not be enough to remove sov completely on it's own, but it could certainly have a logical and potentially serious effect on the moral and effectiveness of the defenders.

Time will tell.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Rikki Sals
BioLogistics
#29 - 2011-10-26 18:50:50 UTC
Good article. Thanks for pointing it out here. Smile

I have a better idea now of why they're keeping it on the console; a multi-platform shooter client could easily make one platform or the other a second class citizen. If the PS3 became that citizen, it would kill the project's key aspiration from the get-go, to bring "EVE" to the console. If the PC client became that citizen, it would mean a bunch of wasted work for little potential gain (a minor PC fps audience consisting mainly of people who were already part of the spaceship audience).

The other reason it doesn't bug me is probably because I already have a PS3, which just gathers dust (maybe that's where the name comes from...) when I'm not using the bluray drive. Cool If the cost of entry isn't exorbitantly high, I'll definitely give Dust 514 a whorl when they release.
Oberine Noriepa
#30 - 2011-10-26 19:02:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Oberine Noriepa
As excited as I am for Dust 514, a PC version needs to come out for it. There are plenty of PC gamers out there without consoles who find EVE intimidating. Using Dust on the PC would be a perfect way to reel that audience in. Plus, CCP would make more money with two versions of the game. Surely they can see this? It would be extremely daft to not make a PC version down the line, especially when the current consoles are nearing the end of their lifespan.

∃
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-10-26 19:34:27 UTC
Rikki Sals wrote:
Good article. Thanks for pointing it out here. Smile

I have a better idea now of why they're keeping it on the console; a multi-platform shooter client could easily make one platform or the other a second class citizen. If the PS3 became that citizen, it would kill the project's key aspiration from the get-go, to bring "EVE" to the console. If the PC client became that citizen, it would mean a bunch of wasted work for little potential gain (a minor PC fps audience consisting mainly of people who were already part of the spaceship audience).

The other reason it doesn't bug me is probably because I already have a PS3, which just gathers dust (maybe that's where the name comes from...) when I'm not using the bluray drive. Cool If the cost of entry isn't exorbitantly high, I'll definitely give Dust 514 a whorl when they release.


lol of course its not an issue for you you HAVE the console lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#32 - 2011-10-26 19:38:18 UTC
CCP thinks big, you really have to hand them that.

I won't be playing Dust though because I'm not going to buy a second console for a single game. I find the platform limitation to be a real shame.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#33 - 2011-10-26 19:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Ana Vyr wrote:
CCP thinks big, you really have to hand them that.

I won't be playing Dust though because I'm not going to buy a second console for a single game. I find the platform limitation to be a real shame.


Yeah me too. Also, I havent been giving Sony money (especially sub money) since their network got hacked and they gave out free identity protection cause of the info stolen

Who is really gonna go out and buy a PS3 for one game with a limited lifespan?

Well, who other than the Goons lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2011-10-26 19:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
[quote]Dust 514 could revolutionise the PlayStation Network. It could bring a microtransaction craze to consoles.


lol its a "craze" IE a "fad" not "industry standard"


Sorry to brust your bubble but companies like Glu, or griptonite, just made thier last console game ever and are now doing f2p model only. They have 15 teams always making these new games right now, on 6 month to 1 year dev cycles.

The idea being unlike star wars battlefront 3, you can't get the project caned after 3 years. You develop fast, you sell fast. you don't lose as much money if it tanks.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#35 - 2011-10-26 20:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: E man Industries
I hope it goes well.

I would rather play one constantly iterated game than a new game every few months that is essentially a re hash of the same old.

This is why I play mmo's, i want to be involved in a wolrd, not simply play though them and move on.

I do wish dust was for PC but understand why it is not to be so.

I also believe the article glosses over how important release is. How many mmo's have been released as unfinished piles of junk. You need the initial interest to gather information on where to develop and also earn revenue.

No you don't need millions of sales and to actually break even upon release but I hope CCP does not over look the value of a polished release. Getting people to play the game in an unfinished form will turn them off. Those who try a game and put it down because it is not finished will not pick it up again. Even 6 months later when bugs are fixed and content is added you still have a bad reputation. When a consumer asks about dust there friend will chime in saying the tried it and it was a turd.

You want lots of players in your game to have a good initial experience and interest is highest upon release day when the hype machine is in full swing.


MMO's require a critical mass of players. Fail to achieve a critical mass of players and your game will wither and die. Hit critical mass and your population will explode.

Please Please don't release junk and promise to iterate on it later..
Base this upon MMO's that have been released and failed, and look at why.

-lack of content
-Bugs
-unfinished items, tasks ext

will kill and mmo before it starts.

Please Please do not pre maturely release...........
It's always bad and messy....
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#36 - 2011-10-26 20:56:11 UTC
E man Industries wrote:
I hope it goes well.

I would rather play one constantly iterated game than a new game every few months that is essentially a re hash of the same old.

This is why I play mmo's, i want to be involved in a wolrd, not simply play though them and move on.

I do wish dust was for PC but understand why it is not to be so.

I also believe the article glosses over how important release is. How many mmo's have been released as unfinished piles of junk. You need the initial interest to gather information on where to develop and also earn revenue.

No you don't need millions of sales and to actually break even upon release but I hope CCP does not over look the value of a polished release. Getting people to play the game in an unfinished form will turn them off. Those who try a game and put it down because it is not finished will not pick it up again. Even 6 months later when bugs are fixed and content is added you still have a bad reputation. When a consumer asks about dust there friend will chime in saying the tried it and it was a turd.

You want lots of players in your game to have a good initial experience and interest is highest upon release day when the hype machine is in full swing.


MMO's require a critical mass of players. Fail to achieve a critical mass of players and your game will wither and die. Hit critical mass and your population will explode.

Please Please don't release junk and promise to iterate on it later..
Base this upon MMO's that have been released and failed, and look at why.

-lack of content
-Bugs
-unfinished items, tasks ext

will kill and mmo before it starts.

Please Please do not pre maturely release...........
It's always bad and messy....


Truthfully, (I hate to say this) CCP has always had issues with this. I'm not talking about expansions only though. When EVE first went gold I would have been hard pressed to call it a complete game, and I"m a pretty hard core fan. Smile

The ray of hope that I see is that Sony will have a hand in how polished the game must be before release, and they fully understand the importance of this. I think their experience will guide CCP in what absolutely has to be polished on release, and what can be iterated on later.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-10-26 22:00:41 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
[quote]Dust 514 could revolutionise the PlayStation Network. It could bring a microtransaction craze to consoles.


lol its a "craze" IE a "fad" not "industry standard"


Sorry to brust your bubble but companies like Glu, or griptonite, just made thier last console game ever and are now doing f2p model only. They have 15 teams always making these new games right now, on 6 month to 1 year dev cycles.

The idea being unlike star wars battlefront 3, you can't get the project caned after 3 years. You develop fast, you sell fast. you don't lose as much money if it tanks.


didnt you quit?
Like twice?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-10-27 06:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Quote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:

Now we know pretty much EXACTLY why DUST will never make it to the XBox and it is not for the lack of trying on CCP's part. Blame Microsoft.


Yeah... they wouldnt allow microtransactions an PS will. I dont think "blame" is the right word here


Microsoft have the power to allow them, they choose not to. Its a valid reason to blame.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#39 - 2011-10-27 07:19:25 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
As excited as I am for Dust 514, a PC version needs to come out for it. There are plenty of PC gamers out there without consoles who find EVE intimidating. Using Dust on the PC would be a perfect way to reel that audience in. Plus, CCP would make more money with two versions of the game. Surely they can see this? It would be extremely daft to not make a PC version down the line, especially when the current consoles are nearing the end of their lifespan.


You can still buy the PS2...

I do agree with most of your other points though...

Should have been a dual-boot situ; press WASD for dust or f1-f8 for EVE.

Drop the monthly charge to €8 and add vanity items to both.

Probably would have worked too, minus being able to support mac and Linux ;)

This space for rent.
Jita Alt666
#40 - 2011-10-27 08:32:18 UTC
Thanks Op. That is a pretty good article that makes some very important points about the possible future of game development.
Previous page123Next page