These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Retribution 1.1] Black Ops Little Things - now with Covert Cyno update

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#301 - 2013-02-13 07:44:24 UTC
I have doubts that they'll ever make Bops warp cloaked. The ability to make that completely overpowered in a group is just to easily within grasp.

Ghost fleets of BS that simply can't be caught or fought unless they absolutely want to sounds cool on paper, but in a game environment probably sucks.

And by probably I mean it would break the fleet warfare setting.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Kerdrak
Querry Moon
#302 - 2013-02-13 11:13:03 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
New black ops role bonus

"Micro jump drive can be activated while cloaked"


CCP Fozzie, what do you think?

How about just giving it covert ops cloak


That would be prefered but it might make the ship a bit OP.

I think if they gave the black ops a bonus like the MJD one along with a buff to the tank, it could finally be a fun ship to fly.


The price tag + skillpoint reqs are enough to not make them too OP. Maybe 2 kind of black ops battleships, like recon ships:

- "Tactical" BO: CO cloak, jump drive, bridge, DPS nerf and fleet bonus.
- Combat BO: No CO cloak, jump drive, no bridge, buff tank (current BO ships)

Example of Tactical BO would be khanid apocalipse with only 4 turret hardpoints and slots for bridge, cloak and gang mods.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#303 - 2013-02-13 14:27:00 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Ghost fleets of BS that simply can't be caught or fought unless they absolutely want to sounds cool on paper, but in a game environment probably sucks.

That's right, I forgot that bubbles can't catch Blops, or stop them from jumping, oh wait that's right they can one interdictor will stop this ghost fleet, one warp bubble will stop them, a fail into a drag bubble and they are dead.
What it OP is a ghost fleet of 80k EHP Cloaky Nullified, T3 ships that truly can not be caught unless they want to be.
And unless they take a major nerf bat to T3 ships, which I doubt, there is nothing OP about Blops getting the Covert-Ops cloak.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Titch Gunnarson
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2013-02-13 21:43:04 UTC
cov ops cloak is not really needed, that part shouldnt be changed. Current cloak is good enough.
Although, would be hilarious and epic to have it...but not needed.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2013-02-13 22:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Titch Gunnarson wrote:
Current cloak is good enough.

No cloak is better than current cloak, while you do fly faster cloaked it trashed already bad scan res and takes a mid slot to recover the lost scan res from the cloak.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Ragnarok Knight
ROGUE - DRONES
#306 - 2013-02-15 00:47:36 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Want to make the Black Ops more worthwhile flying?

Simple, give them their racial EWAR bonus.

Right now the only ship benefiting from it's racial EWAR bonus is the Widow, and to good effect, because why would I jump a billion isk ship into a fight, when I could throw a stealth bomber into the battle instead, with almost double the DPS at a fraction of the cost?

Making the Sin a long range point with damps, the Redeemer a close range neut boat like the Pilgrim and the Panther a web bonus like the rapier would make them more worth fielding.

- Dread


THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#307 - 2013-02-15 01:46:44 UTC
Allowing T3's to fit covert cynos? Welcome to 90K EHP cyno Proteus' with 50km points! Cyno Arazu now totally obsolete.

Extra range and lower fuel consumption? Yawn.

The problem with BLOPs is deeper than this folderol. BS's are giant punching bags - sure, you can covert jump a bunch of BLOPs onto a silly fool, but he better be in a Drake or a BS, or your guns won't hit him because BS sized weapons signature resolution and tracking are so excrable you can't hit anything. Your maneuverability and tank is so pathetic you have to win by sheer numbers ganking, and if anything gets to range on you, good luck!

I'll await Fozzie's debalancing of BS weapons and the sig/speed/tracking idiocy before I really boother with BLOPs. Although, the idea about dropping covert cyno prerequisites to 4 is a good idea - very few people want to sink a month AKA US$15 to train a skill for a module to fit on a ship to allow other ships no one really flies to bridge a third type of ship onto targets who get free magic intel via Local, and can avoid getting caught by said ship you wasted all your time training for.

Zzzzzz.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
radecz3k
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#308 - 2013-02-15 12:16:36 UTC
Hello all.
If we are getting BO boost can we make other bo than panther usable? Like widow it sucks so much. It needs more PG or more low slots to make better fits for it, maybe some torp range boost also.
MV Queen
The Forsakened Few
We Forsakened Few
#309 - 2013-02-15 12:55:34 UTC
So blockades get ability to fit a covert cyno soon - but are they all getting a second hi slot?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#310 - 2013-02-15 14:44:51 UTC
MV Queen wrote:
So blockades get ability to fit a covert cyno soon - but are they all getting a second hi slot?


Should be a logical step.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Dhuras
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#311 - 2013-02-15 21:12:25 UTC
remove the cloaked speed bonus, and allow to fit covert ops cloaks. they are pretty damn useless in any actual covert role as one would expect a "black ops" ship to be when they cannot even warp cloaked.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#312 - 2013-02-15 23:55:20 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Titch Gunnarson wrote:
Current cloak is good enough.

No cloak is better than current cloak, while you do fly faster cloaked it trashed already bad scan res and takes a mid slot to recover the lost scan res from the cloak.


What if they got a hull bonus that negated that scan res penalty, or what if CCP gave them the ability to use a speed mod of some sort while cloaked? Like a covert BS MWD or AB?

I'm sorry you want a BS that warps cloaked but its literally never going to happen. It would be beyond game breaking for so many reasons I'm shocked that anybody still bothers asking about it. You should probably move past wanting that because anybody that has any sense has already realized that it breaks things in sheer concept alone, much less actual usage in game.

The existing recons are so much balsa wood as is to make up for their ability to fit the cloak. The trade in fitting your black ops would need to make to simulate that would make you cry and weep tears to fill a swimming pool.

Imagine your Redeemer so incredibly weak after fitting that its trying to fit cruiser sized guns. Think about your 425ac panther (not really the rapier is the only recon you CAN fit normally).

Take a look at the recons and then ask yourself if you want that translated to your battleship.

Look for other things to ask for to improve them, like ditching the scan res penalty because those are changes you're more likely to get, and in the end they're also changes that won't come back to bite you in the ass.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2013-02-16 04:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Hit Point Comparison between the T1 Hull and Black Ops Hull

Armageddon Total HP = 18348, Lv 5 EHP = 29.5K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 44.7K
Redeemer Total HP = 14655, Lv 5 EHP = 24.3K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 36.5K

Dominix Total HP = 18321, Lv 5 EHP = 29.2K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 45.1K
Sin Total HP = 14655, Lv 5 EHP = 24K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 36.8K

Scorpion HP = 17579, Lv 5 EHP = 28.4K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 42.1K
Widow HP = 14062, Lv 5 EHP = 23.4K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 34.4K

Typhoon HP = 17891, Lv 5 EHP = 28.7K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 43.7K
Panther HP = 14311, Lv 5 EHP = 23.5K, Lv 5 + Damage Control EHP = 44.7K

If they get T2 Resists they will most likely have there HP adjusted to reflect this comparison. Stealth ships are squishier than their T1 counterpart, and the others can fit a covert ops cloak the black ops should be no different.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#314 - 2013-02-16 13:16:04 UTC
Can we please just have covops cloaks on Black Ops already?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#315 - 2013-02-16 16:08:34 UTC
Just want to remind everyone what was said in the OP of the thread:

Quote:
This is not the big Black Ops rebalance, and we here at CCP do not consider Black Ops "done" after these changes. We are putting these tweaks out now since it may be a while before we can get to the full Black Ops rebalance and we don't want to leave them in their current state in the meantime.


So discussion of topics like future blackops revamp ideas and local chat are all well and good, but they're outside the scope of these specific changes for 1.1.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Inepsa1987
#316 - 2013-02-16 16:13:00 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

What if they got a hull bonus that negated that scan res penalty, or what if CCP gave them the ability to use a speed mod of some sort while cloaked? Like a covert BS MWD or AB?



This right here.

Spaceship Pilot.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#317 - 2013-02-16 17:28:42 UTC
Inepsa1987 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

What if they got a hull bonus that negated that scan res penalty, or what if CCP gave them the ability to use a speed mod of some sort while cloaked? Like a covert BS MWD or AB?



This right here.


i was thinking mjd while cloaked.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#318 - 2013-02-16 19:12:24 UTC
Kerdrak wrote:
The price tag + skillpoint reqs are enough to not make them too OP. Maybe 2 kind of black ops battleships, like recon ships:

- "Tactical" BO: CO cloak, jump drive, bridge, DPS nerf and fleet bonus.
- Combat BO: No CO cloak, jump drive, no bridge, buff tank (current BO ships)

Example of Tactical BO would be khanid apocalipse with only 4 turret hardpoints and slots for bridge, cloak and gang mods.


Just like the price tag + skillpoint reqs are enough to make Tracking Titans not too OP... oh, wait...

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Hemmo Paskiainen
#319 - 2013-02-16 20:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome!

Rly awesome changes! Was about time!

Just a few small things:

With NPC AI changes using the covert gen for dropping on targets while they are ratting is impossible with covert op frigats without losing them. They die due npc agoo before end of cycle. The recons have trouble aswell. Only if you gimp the fitting with full tank you still lose it if: NPC agroo + Target agroo. Kinda bad to be stuck in a bs in middle of hostile space

Another thing, regional gates. Range formula should get an exception that the Black Op can always jump 1 system jump. Some systems with + 4,5ly (10ly-20ly, A to B with +4,5ly range need to be done manually in the current state.

Maybe its something to take a look at the old F&I topic on the old forums, lots of good idea's for inspiration:
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416&page=1

Thanks CCP!

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Hiroshi Yakasuki
Yakasuki Enterprises
#320 - 2013-02-16 21:25:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Just want to remind everyone what was said in the OP of the thread:

Quote:
This is not the big Black Ops rebalance, and we here at CCP do not consider Black Ops "done" after these changes. We are putting these tweaks out now since it may be a while before we can get to the full Black Ops rebalance and we don't want to leave them in their current state in the meantime.


So discussion of topics like future blackops revamp ideas and local chat are all well and good, but they're outside the scope of these specific changes for 1.1.


My first thought was "Yay blops getting looked at!"

Makes me wonder if this fuel change deal also has the Jump Portal Generation skill fixed to 'logically' effect Black Ops BS's Covert Jump Portal Generator?

Or should we continue to not train that skill past level 1 until we are in one of the giant nullsec holding corps?