These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

FW STILL BROKEN?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-02-16 12:21:35 UTC
hopefully im putting this in the right forum section.

So I've been in faction warfare for quite some time and feel although ccp have tried to revamp and inject new life into Fw they have somewhat failed.

So with caldari losing every system at christmas and now the current onslaught of caldari plexers taking systems everywhere, what is the future for FW, burnout, tides turning every few months?

What needs to be done, well over the last few weeks ive talked to gallente/caldari fw pilots who feel CCP need to relook at the currernt state of fw,

PVE based sovereignty is ridiculous in a pvp environment, so what can be done maybe if ccp based low sec sovereignty on 3 aspects currently enjoyed by eve players,

1: 50% of contested state should be on the basis of kills between opposing militias within a system(no more no less)
2; 30% of contested state based on plexing, further plexing gives u no gains to % of contested state.
3: 20% of contested state based on dust content.

better LP gains are needed for militia kills to offset any loses due to reduced number of plexes needed, this scenerio would promote
more pvp and the reduced number of plexes would deter farmers a little.

input on this idea good or bad is appreciated.

Farmers kill fw pod them all
Lejuice
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-02-16 12:58:26 UTC
And what is a system lets say 20% contested by gallante and caldari wants to take it, but there is no gallante entering the system so noone you can shoot in the system, then you wont ever be able to capture it?

Dosent work
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-16 13:16:06 UTC
Dust content already seems to affect system control.

Pvp kills also affect system control. Blow up or chase away opposing faction, then they can't control the system.

I wouldn't like kill ratio based control of a system because it discourages newbies participating, and doesn't allow for a quantity over quality approach to warfare which you would expect from Miltiias.
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#4 - 2013-02-16 13:34:22 UTC
qijong jin wrote:


PVE based sovereignty is ridiculous in a pvp environment, so what can be done maybe if ccp based low sec sovereignty on 3 aspects currently enjoyed by eve players,



You are clueless.

If you refuse to take every single fight, like Minmatar does, then you lose that plex. You did not lose that plex because I am a better carebear who beats you at pve.

Right know 6 members of the infamous miner corporation, T.R.I.E.D refused to fight my 3 ships. They let me take the plex and carefully gathered a force of 11. This was not a loss at pve, this was not about me "having fun orbitting buttons" as opposed to their "having pvp" as they like to say. This was a pvp situation, and they lost miserably as usual, because they gave up.

Just because it doesn't give you one of your precious "kill mails", it is pvp. If you pretend it is not, than you pretend EVE online is the only game ever with pvp opportunity.
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-16 13:47:28 UTC
clueless.lol as i see it its only the farmers that wanna keep the current fw system. plexing is dull. plexing can get u fights. but mostly u come across stabbed farmers. or ya sit in a plex and wait wt hits accel gate then decides not to fight.lol.
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-02-16 13:48:49 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Dust content already seems to affect system control.

Pvp kills also affect system control. Blow up or chase away opposing faction, then they can't control the system.

I wouldn't like kill ratio based control of a system because it discourages newbies participating, and doesn't allow for a quantity over quality approach to warfare which you would expect from Miltiias.




please expand on this how would it discourage noobies
Kirai Crendraven
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-02-16 14:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirai Crendraven
Pirate Lets see where to start maybe we should start about the time the new changes rolled out and the gal mil steam rolled the caldari now its the other way around seems like the problem didn't really get solved like they intended YET AGAIN. Do I want to waste THAT much time to get lp for doing nothing but rotating around a button hell no it never should have been something PVE in a PVP environment. Scrap the plexing altogether I don't care how just remove it and give more lp per kill. And for the incoming troll you STFU we don't care what you think. And as always I am right and you are wrong.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-16 14:21:18 UTC
qijong jin wrote:
hopefully im putting this in the right forum section.

So I've been in faction warfare for quite some time and feel although ccp have tried to revamp and inject new life into Fw they have somewhat failed.

So with caldari losing every system at christmas and now the current onslaught of caldari plexers taking systems everywhere, what is the future for FW, burnout, tides turning every few months?

What needs to be done, well over the last few weeks ive talked to gallente/caldari fw pilots who feel CCP need to relook at the currernt state of fw,

PVE based sovereignty is ridiculous in a pvp environment, so what can be done maybe if ccp based low sec sovereignty on 3 aspects currently enjoyed by eve players,

1: 50% of contested state should be on the basis of kills between opposing militias within a system(no more no less)
2; 30% of contested state based on plexing, further plexing gives u no gains to % of contested state.
3: 20% of contested state based on dust content.

better LP gains are needed for militia kills to offset any loses due to reduced number of plexes needed, this scenerio would promote
more pvp and the reduced number of plexes would deter farmers a little.

input on this idea good or bad is appreciated.

Farmers kill fw pod them all


2/10 for the troll. Try better next time.

.
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-02-16 14:25:11 UTC
Kirai Crendraven wrote:
Pirate Lets see where to start maybe we should start about the time the new changes rolled out and the gal mil steam rolled the caldari now its the other way around seems like the problem didn't really get solved like they intended YET AGAIN. Do I want to waste THAT much time to get lp for doing nothing but rotating around a button hell no it never should have been as someone mentioned PVE in a PVP environment. Scrap the plexing altogether I don't care how just remove it and give more lp per kill. And for the incoming troll you STFU we don't care what you think. And as always I am right and you are wrong.



some pve content should be kept, simply because itll help the new players make some isk to keep them in ship for the pvp part of fw.
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-02-16 14:26:53 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
qijong jin wrote:
hopefully im putting this in the right forum section.

So I've been in faction warfare for quite some time and feel although ccp have tried to revamp and inject new life into Fw they have somewhat failed.

So with caldari losing every system at christmas and now the current onslaught of caldari plexers taking systems everywhere, what is the future for FW, burnout, tides turning every few months?

What needs to be done, well over the last few weeks ive talked to gallente/caldari fw pilots who feel CCP need to relook at the currernt state of fw,

PVE based sovereignty is ridiculous in a pvp environment, so what can be done maybe if ccp based low sec sovereignty on 3 aspects currently enjoyed by eve players,

1: 50% of contested state should be on the basis of kills between opposing militias within a system(no more no less)
2; 30% of contested state based on plexing, further plexing gives u no gains to % of contested state.
3: 20% of contested state based on dust content.

better LP gains are needed for militia kills to offset any loses due to reduced number of plexes needed, this scenerio would promote
more pvp and the reduced number of plexes would deter farmers a little.

input on this idea good or bad is appreciated.

Farmers kill fw pod them all



troll wf just trying to start a discussion. -1 for u bro.

2/10 for the troll. Try better next time.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-16 14:43:04 UTC
qijong jin wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Dust content already seems to affect system control.

Pvp kills also affect system control. Blow up or chase away opposing faction, then they can't control the system.

I wouldn't like kill ratio based control of a system because it discourages newbies participating, and doesn't allow for a quantity over quality approach to warfare which you would expect from Miltiias.


please expand on this how would it discourage noobies


Because they're going to bring down the kill:death ratio?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#12 - 2013-02-16 14:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
I made the suggestion at one point to allow FW kills to move the contested bar. It might be a good 'in addition to' but it can never be a mandatory requirement. If the enemy decides not to engage you then you are stuck. What?

Regardless, from an Amarrian point of view, FW has become quite feudalist. I live in Siseide. I patrol Dal, Vard, and Lantorn in addition to my home system. I attack into Auga, Hof, and Eszur. I'll roam beyond that range when my FC calls for it.

It is incredibly difficult to push a reasonably sized group out of their home system. You need massive numbers covering a wide time zone span. We can't seem to make any progress in Auga or Eszur. Our primary adversaries likewise can't seem to push us back. There are large swaths of empty systems in the warzone. They keep flipping back and forth and will continue to do so. Even if a side focuses in and captures one of the primary enemy hubs (Kamela), the effort is so exhausting that it doesn't translate into a threat for our castle.

The two largest Minmatar alliances live three systems away from Siseide but we see them only on roams. To my eyes they operate the same way. Home system. Patrol Zone- usually within two systems. It is very feudalist in nature.
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-16 14:59:12 UTC
Takseen wrote:
qijong jin wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Dust content already seems to affect system control.

Pvp kills also affect system control. Blow up or chase away opposing faction, then they can't control the system.

I wouldn't like kill ratio based control of a system because it discourages newbies participating, and doesn't allow for a quantity over quality approach to warfare which you would expect from Miltiias.


please expand on this how would it discourage noobies


Because they're going to bring down the kill:death ratio?



as i remember it ccp designed fw to be a transition from.pve to pvp and a stepping stone to null sec sovereignty. do u see null sec dwellers orbiting a button to take a system.no u dont. fw system as it is, is broken more then beforr. time for actual decent changes to be made. what these changes areor could be is irrelevant. but change is needed.
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-02-16 15:09:51 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I made the suggestion at one point to allow FW kills to move the contested bar. It might be a good 'in addition to' but it can never be a mandatory requirement. If the enemy decides not to engage you then you are stuck. What?

Regardless, from an Amarrian point of view, FW has become quite feudalist. I live in Siseide. I patrol Dal, Vard, and Lantorn in addition to my home system. I attack into Auga, Hof, and Eszur. I'll roam beyond that range when my FC calls for it.

It is incredibly difficult to push a reasonably sized group out of their home system. You need massive numbers covering a wide time zone span. We can't seem to make any progress in Auga or Eszur. Our primary adversaries likewise can't seem to push us back. There are large swaths of empty systems in the warzone. They keep flipping back and forth and will continue to do so. Even if a side focuses in and captures one of the primary enemy hubs (Kamela), the effort is so exhausting that it doesn't translate into a threat for our castle.

The two largest Minmatar alliances live three systems away from Siseide but we see them only on roams. To my eyes they operate the same way. Home system. Patrol Zone- usually within two systems. It is very feudalist in nature.


im probably wrong but are you saying that there isnt much.point going beyond these systems due to the fw system
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-02-16 15:18:30 UTC
qijong jin wrote:



as i remember it ccp designed fw to be a transition from.pve to pvp and a stepping stone to null sec sovereignty. do u see null sec dwellers orbiting a button to take a system.no u dont. fw system as it is, is broken more then beforr. time for actual decent changes to be made. what these changes areor could be is irrelevant. but change is needed.


I hope that wasn't CCP's intention, cos it sounds like terrible design. FW has very little in common with null. Its actually generating fights.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#16 - 2013-02-16 15:36:36 UTC
Everyone in FW needs to take a chill pill and look at it's features rather than its flaws. It's a free wardec that offers thousands of potential targets flying whatever ship you want to fly and you get paid in LP (and now bounties) to kill other players. You have access to lucrative missions and get paid in LP for plexing if you wish to bait for fights or hunt plexers. The mechanics offer something for everyone.

If the other side doesn't show up it will always be PvE, regardless of the mechanics. This is true in nullsec (structure grinding) and in FW (plex grinding). Oddly enough, players provide the PvP content, not mechanics. EvE is not a theme park that hands you fun, you have to make it yourself. It's not CCPs fault if players decide they don't want to fight you. Try shipping down, flying in smaller gangs, or beating chest in the enemy militias home systems if you can't get fights.
qijong jin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-02-16 16:00:44 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Everyone in FW needs to take a chill pill and look at it's features rather than its flaws. It's a free wardec that offers thousands of potential targets flying whatever ship you want to fly and you get paid in LP (and now bounties) to kill other players. You have access to lucrative missions and get paid in LP for plexing if you wish to bait for fights or hunt plexers. The mechanics offer something for everyone.

If the other side doesn't show up it will always be PvE, regardless of the mechanics. This is true in nullsec (structure grinding) and in FW (plex grinding). Oddly enough, players provide the PvP content, not mechanics. EvE is not a theme park that hands you fun, you have to make it yourself. It's not CCPs fault if players decide they don't want to fight you. Try shipping down, flying in smaller gangs, or beating chest in the enemy militias home systems if you can't get fights.



i fly mainly solo in a frig. cant ship down bro.lol i need a pod of doom.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-16 16:37:32 UTC
qijong jin wrote:


i fly mainly solo in a frig. cant ship down bro.lol i need a pod of doom.


Get a friend or alt to act as bait for you. My alt is apparently very good at attracting Caldari frigs and dessies...
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#19 - 2013-02-16 17:00:51 UTC
qijong jin wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I made the suggestion at one point to allow FW kills to move the contested bar. It might be a good 'in addition to' but it can never be a mandatory requirement. If the enemy decides not to engage you then you are stuck. What?

Regardless, from an Amarrian point of view, FW has become quite feudalist. I live in Siseide. I patrol Dal, Vard, and Lantorn in addition to my home system. I attack into Auga, Hof, and Eszur. I'll roam beyond that range when my FC calls for it.

It is incredibly difficult to push a reasonably sized group out of their home system. You need massive numbers covering a wide time zone span. We can't seem to make any progress in Auga or Eszur. Our primary adversaries likewise can't seem to push us back. There are large swaths of empty systems in the warzone. They keep flipping back and forth and will continue to do so. Even if a side focuses in and captures one of the primary enemy hubs (Kamela), the effort is so exhausting that it doesn't translate into a threat for our castle.

The two largest Minmatar alliances live three systems away from Siseide but we see them only on roams. To my eyes they operate the same way. Home system. Patrol Zone- usually within two systems. It is very feudalist in nature.


im probably wrong but are you saying that there isnt much.point going beyond these systems due to the fw system


thats how its balanced. You have to overextend yourself to reach a high tier, the more systems you own the more difficult it will get to defend them. Systems without stations or any other strategical value slowly creep back into vulnerable but there is still a point to flip them if you plan it right.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Sedition.
#20 - 2013-02-16 17:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
Super Chair wrote:
Everyone in FW needs to take a chill pill and look at it's features rather than its flaws. It's a free wardec that offers thousands of potential targets flying whatever ship you want to fly and you get paid in LP (and now bounties) to kill other players. You have access to lucrative missions and get paid in LP for plexing if you wish to bait for fights or hunt plexers. The mechanics offer something for everyone.

If the other side doesn't show up it will always be PvE, regardless of the mechanics. This is true in nullsec (structure grinding) and in FW (plex grinding). Oddly enough, players provide the PvP content, not mechanics. EvE is not a theme park that hands you fun, you have to make it yourself. It's not CCPs fault if players decide they don't want to fight you. Try shipping down, flying in smaller gangs, or beating chest in the enemy militias home systems if you can't get fights.



I fully agree with this everything superchair says here is correct changing ne mechanics wont force ppl to pvp.. One thing id like to see implemented is the timer rollback just to annoy the farmers. Total warzone is hard to keep and going for its even harder wen u get to take the last few systems u need to split ur forces and put the fires out that ur oponents are atacking behind you....


PS IN B4 CEARAIN COMES ON AND ***** THE POST UP WITH A WALL OF TEXT ARGUING FOR NOTIFICATIONS WEN A PLEX IS OPEN LIKE THE OTHER 100 THREADS HE SHITTED UP (WE ALL KNOW THIS IS A STUPID IDEA)

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
123Next pageLast page