EVE General Discussion

Which is why I want station destruction as hard as possible, but still be reasonable.
This would all be solved if CCP would just do the PoS rework.

Why should there be a safe place to do anything? Nullseccers as they are, already risk extremely little with just about all major alliances providing reimbursements for lost boats. If you're stupid enough to put all your eggs on one basket and that basket gets destroyed, then it's too bad so sad, maybe you're wiser next time.

Nicolo's point about POS's being bad in their current state, and the stations being inferior to the NPC stations is a valid one, but at the same time the other point about bigger alliances being able to stomp all over the small ones is just like it should be. If you can't take the heat, stay away from sovereign space and don't build infrastructure you can't afford to lose.

The incentive to break into nullsec should be coming from entirely other things than from increased safety in the form of the pampering you have there right now. It should be a place with extreme risk and rewards, a place where only the strongest or smartest survive. Right now it's more like a kindergarten.

If it's as 'hard as possible', only the largest and supercap heavy alliances will be able to do it. This is why the members of large coalitions who got elected to the CSM like Mittani and Seleene endlessly push for destructible stations.

That's completely bogus. The average nullseccer isn't the one spending on infrastructure and upgrades, nevermind on the defence. All of that happens at the corp or alliance level. While the average wormhole dweller actually risks everything they have in their home wormhole, all the while doing it without ship reimbursements. The only thing a wormhole dweller does not risk is the content of his wallet, and the assets they have in known space, as in the assets they are not even using on daily basis.

That said, personally I've made numerous posts stating that I'd want to see wormhole space become more dangerous, as to me the game doesn't pose enough risk for anyone as there's way too many ways to make things safe for you regardless of the space you live in.

last "war" between goons and tests has shown how big the risk you are talking about.

at least some "some" of nullseccers.

Still playing dumb I see? Ah well, who pays for the boats used in that defense, who pays the boats used in the offense? Is it the individual members in that fleet, or is it the alliance? The fact remains, the individual players risk very little what is theirs. the actual risks are at the alliance level.

If I, as a wormhole dweller, lose a boat. The replacement comes directly from my own pockets. If I, as a wormhole dweller, lose my POS I've lost literally everything I own apart from what's in my wallet, and the countless numbers of shuttles I have in various trade hubs. That is the risk I'm referring to.

I agree that there is obviously some risk involved, but it is far from what you claimed it to be. Like I've said many times over, for the most part it's the alliances themselves that take this risk, while the risk for the individual pilot is rather small. Afterall, it's not exactly the average nullseccer that is flying that titan to its doom, they are the ones out there flying the drakes, the rifters, the bombers, and an assortment of other rather cheap and disposable boats. The actual risk for that group of people is more in the possibility of having to move to a worse location, which can obviously be a big thing but not exactly a matter of life and death.



Note that before you started your crusade against wormholes, I didn't mention them at all. And I agree with you 100% in that for us wormhole dwellers in high class holes, the replacement of boats no matter how shiny, is a rather trivial matter. I wouldn't however agree wiht the lowered PvP risk at all, as it takes much more effort to lower that risk. At the same time I would agree if you claimed that the chances of encountering someone is small, that is completely true. This is why we resort to things like "rage rolling" or the occasional low or null sec roams, just looking for something to kill. At the same time I fully acknowledge that vast amount of corps who do just the opposite and fortify themselves in their own hole and do everything to avoid combat. Those are the people us wormhole dwellers call farmers, the lowest of the low that doesn't deserve to live in their hole.

The reason why I'm personally hoping for more danger in every part of the space, including high sec, low sec, null sec as well as wormhole space is that when I started playing this game, it was pictured as The Game where risk is constant and losses are permanent. After being around for almost 2 years now (admittely not much compared to what some others have spent with it), I've found way too many ways to make things almost completely safe for you. I keep hearing about how you shouldn't fly what you can't afford, all the while those very same people are completely risk averse when it comes to the bigger things; your homes themselves.

Additionally I see complaints about null becoming stagnant with the seas of blues (part of this obviously being true, while other claims about it being vastly exaggerated). The change of increasing the risk of more permanent loss to me, seems like it'd be a good way to reduce this stagnation, it'd give another incentive to go out there and deal a much more meaningful blow against your opponent. Additionally it might result in a more tighter coalition system where the space controlled would be reduced even further and as such the incentive to fight for the best space would only increase. Naturally this has the chance (not saying it would happen, just that it could) of reducing the numbers of the biggest alliances and causing the birth of new alliances from those deemed too small and weak to be a part of the Goons, the Testies, the PL or whatever.

In short, I'm all about adding incentives to bring more conflict, no matter what the cost.

One thing to remember about destructible stations. Is that just because it could be possible, doesn't mean every station will be blown up. While some maybe destroyed for trolling reasons, any reasonable invading force would want to preserve the station for when they own the space.

UaXdeath went from the predicted "unstoppable force to conquer nullsec" to living in NPC space. -A- finally died. TEST went from a CFC member to a leader of its own separate coalition. SOLAR went from an obscure group living in a dark corner of the map to the unified ruler of Drone space. White Noise and Red Alliance went from rulers of vast domains to WN dead and RA barely clinging to existence. For contrast, what changes happened outside nullsec? FW still going on? Chribba still mining veld okay?


First question: It says they lived and the alliances who didn't conform to the new reality died. That's all that matters.
Second: No. And even if so, the solution isn't found within greatly amplifying the rich's ability to make the poor poorer.

I have nothing against station destruction per se but the reality of underlying problems with nullsec smallholding existence, individual player income/incentive and industry are so overwhelming that I can't even consider an implementation of station destruction before all of them are radically overhauled.