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Dev Blog: No Brakes - Ship and module Balancing in Retribution 1.1

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Khaim Khal
Perkone
Caldari State
#141 - 2013-02-15 14:57:13 UTC
Quote:
March 2012 seems like a lifetime ago in terms of EVE development[.] Since that fateful day we have rebalanced Frigates, Mining Barges, Destroyers, and Cruisers.


So maybe it's time for someone to spend 5 minutes and update the wiki's database copy? Pretty sure the Merlin doesn't have split weapons any more...
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#142 - 2013-02-15 15:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
I liked the graph on BC use, any chance we could see a before and after for the frigs and cruisers since their rebalance? Or at least the names of the top ships of their class? It would seem you have the data.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#143 - 2013-02-15 16:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
if we wanted to


I'm taking that to mean that you don't want to.

ITTigerClawIK wrote:
erm, whats wrong with the rifter if youd ont mind me asking?


It just can't stand up to merlin or incursus. I don't see a reason to ever fly it over anything else. I forgot to mention punisher though, that's worse than everything.


You're putting your word in his mouth. Perhaps you should rethink that if you want anyone to care what you have to say.

Rifter and Punisher could use perhaps a slight tweak, although in the right hands both can still be very, very useful.

Some of the other changes coming down the pipe may end up fixing the minor problems without specific attention being paid to these two.

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Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#144 - 2013-02-15 17:26:57 UTC
One question and I know you don't want to commit to anything as to not get our hopes up or not to deliver but where in the list of items to be fixed are the TD,TE and TC? Guess what I am looking for is High Med or Low priority.

Thanks
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#145 - 2013-02-15 19:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Ranger 1 wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
if we wanted to


I'm taking that to mean that you don't want to.

ITTigerClawIK wrote:
erm, whats wrong with the rifter if youd ont mind me asking?


It just can't stand up to merlin or incursus. I don't see a reason to ever fly it over anything else. I forgot to mention punisher though, that's worse than everything.


You're putting your word in his mouth. Perhaps you should rethink that if you want anyone to care what you have to say.

Rifter and Punisher could use perhaps a slight tweak, although in the right hands both can still be very, very useful.

Some of the other changes coming down the pipe may end up fixing the minor problems without specific attention being paid to these two.


Rifters are still viable, only they are mediocre across the board now. Since they are an iconic ship of eve, I wouldn't mind if they got a slight all-around buff.
I cannot see what your issues with the Punisher are, though. What's wrong with a 9k EHP frigate that can dish out over 130dps and can shoot (with beams) up to 25 km ?

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#146 - 2013-02-15 20:04:43 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Tech2 will be looked at, however, in the new scheme, Tech2 ships shouldn't be plain better than Tech1 in all aspects. They should just be more specialized. So for example, Interceptors should be faster, more agile and far better at tackling that regular Tech1 Frigates, but not necessarily having more EHP or even firepower than regular Tech1 Frigates. Assault Frigates should have more firepower and EHP than Tech1 Frigates, but not necessarily as mobile.

It's about specializing hulls and tradeoffs.
Describing it this way, this is an awesome goal. It'll keep all hulls relevant while making the "specialized" ships that much better at their roles.

I'd really like to see *some* idea of what T2 ships will be balanced when though. I know you guys can't--and I'm not asking you to--lay out the next changes verbatim, but a general "we feel X and Y probably need the most love" would be great, and at least give us some idea.

That being said, I personally would love to have a reason to fly my Deimos over my Thorax. :)

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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EntroX
The Oversized Drive Club
#147 - 2013-02-15 21:04:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Takumiro wrote:
Neugeniko wrote:
CCP Fozzie,
You mention a mass reduction to 400mm plates,
is this correct?

Neug


Read the damn thing.


No she's right it was incorrectly saying 400mm until she mentioned it and CCP Guard was nice enough to ninja fix it.

The plus side of all this is I get to watch Quackbot spasm uncontrollably.


have i ever mentioned that i hate you? (<3)

Owner of FailHeap-Challenge, home of your bitter needs. http://failheap-challenge.com/
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#148 - 2013-02-15 21:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredric Wolf
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Tech2 will be looked at, however, in the new scheme, Tech2 ships shouldn't be plain better than Tech1 in all aspects. They should just be more specialized. So for example, Interceptors should be faster, more agile and far better at tackling that regular Tech1 Frigates, but not necessarily having more EHP or even firepower than regular Tech1 Frigates. Assault Frigates should have more firepower and EHP than Tech1 Frigates, but not necessarily as mobile.

It's about specializing hulls and tradeoffs.
Describing it this way, this is an awesome goal. It'll keep all hulls relevant while making the "specialized" ships that much better at their roles.

I'd really like to see *some* idea of what T2 ships will be balanced when though. I know you guys can't--and I'm not asking you to--lay out the next changes verbatim, but a general "we feel X and Y probably need the most love" would be great, and at least give us some idea.

That being said, I personally would love to have a reason to fly my Deimos over my Thorax. :)


After the plate change the Deimos will be a nice ship to fly. Wish it would get a MWD change though not a fan of that bonus.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#149 - 2013-02-15 21:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
MagnusBraxx
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2013-02-15 21:45:45 UTC
Stop messing with the Hurricane! ccp fozzie, i hate you.
lixxi chixxi
Leper Outcast Unclean
#151 - 2013-02-15 21:58:14 UTC
Quote:

The AARs use the same cycle time, fitting and build requirements as a Tech One armor repairer of the same size. Their blueprint copies are found in all the same places where other blueprints for prototype modules such as the ASB can already be acquired.


I know I will be trolled for asking a question I do not already know the answer to, but I've searched a bit and can't find this info. Where are these other blueprints found? WH? Radar sites? Thx!

M
Dinaheyr
Perfect Defect
#152 - 2013-02-15 22:10:52 UTC
10% kin dmg bonus for drake, it's more like a bad joke than rebalalancing, killing one ship just to decrease his popularity is not a good way to keep balance. A lot of caldari missile ships suffer from this ridiculous "bonus" now you want to make this ship completely useless for PVP same as for PVE ..well at least cyno blobbers still find use for this cheap caldari brick.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#153 - 2013-02-15 22:20:25 UTC
lixxi chixxi wrote:
Quote:

The AARs use the same cycle time, fitting and build requirements as a Tech One armor repairer of the same size. Their blueprint copies are found in all the same places where other blueprints for prototype modules such as the ASB can already be acquired.


I know I will be trolled for asking a question I do not already know the answer to, but I've searched a bit and can't find this info. Where are these other blueprints found? WH? Radar sites? Thx!

M


Excellent question. They're in all the same exploration containers as the ASBs and similar prototype module BPCs.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Mund Richard
#154 - 2013-02-15 22:26:39 UTC
Dinaheyr wrote:
10% kin dmg bonus for drake, it's more like a bad joke than rebalalancing, killing one ship just to decrease his popularity is not a good way to keep balance. A lot of caldari missile ships suffer from this ridiculous "bonus" now you want to make this ship completely useless for PVP same as for PVE ..well at least cyno blobbers still find use for this cheap caldari brick.

Ofc compared to the old Ferox, any damage bonus at all is sweet.
That it takes away one of the main advantages the weapon system has... well, that's kinda silly, but it has been discussed to great lengths in the re-balance thread.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2013-02-16 02:45:11 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
lixxi chixxi wrote:
Quote:

The AARs use the same cycle time, fitting and build requirements as a Tech One armor repairer of the same size. Their blueprint copies are found in all the same places where other blueprints for prototype modules such as the ASB can already be acquired.


I know I will be trolled for asking a question I do not already know the answer to, but I've searched a bit and can't find this info. Where are these other blueprints found? WH? Radar sites? Thx!

M


Excellent question. They're in all the same exploration containers as the ASBs and similar prototype module BPCs.


the non cryptic answer is in null sec and in wreaks...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2013-02-16 03:36:28 UTC
fukier wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Excellent question. They're in all the same exploration containers as the ASBs and similar prototype module BPCs.


the non cryptic answer is in null sec and in wreaks...

Found some ASB BPC's in highsec radars so not just nullsec
Merouk Baas
#157 - 2013-02-16 04:03:03 UTC
So, how much does nanite paste cost?
How does that compare to the cost of cap booster charges for the ASB?
How much do the blueprints for charges cost? How much do the blueprints for repair paste cost?
What mats are required for making charges, and what mats are required to make nanite paste?

How can you call this "balanced"?
Mund Richard
#158 - 2013-02-16 04:51:51 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
So, how much does nanite paste cost?
How does that compare to the cost of cap booster charges for the ASB?
How much do the blueprints for charges cost? How much do the blueprints for repair paste cost?
What mats are required for making charges, and what mats are required to make nanite paste?
How can you call this "balanced"?

Why are people comparing the AAR's charges to non-navy cap boosters?
(Though it makes sense for the MASB, not for the others, and there is no SASB *jedi handwave*)

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Galatea Galilei
Nihilistic Mystics
#159 - 2013-02-16 05:57:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...the weakness of medium railguns...

I'm extremely pleased to see official acknowledgement of the problem with medium rails. My question is, is this going to be addressed anytime soon, or are we going to have to wait until every bloody ship in EVE gets a balance pass before we start looking at the weapon systems? It seems like balancing hulls, important as that is, isn't nearly as important as sorting out things like this. Fiddling with the Ferox only helps the Ferox, whereas fixing rails would help a whole lot of things. You managed to squeeze the HML balance in last expansion, any chance medium rails can see some love this coming expansion?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#160 - 2013-02-16 09:20:00 UTC
Galatea Galilei wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...the weakness of medium railguns...

I'm extremely pleased to see official acknowledgement of the problem with medium rails. My question is, is this going to be addressed anytime soon, or are we going to have to wait until every bloody ship in EVE gets a balance pass before we start looking at the weapon systems? It seems like balancing hulls, important as that is, isn't nearly as important as sorting out things like this. Fiddling with the Ferox only helps the Ferox, whereas fixing rails would help a whole lot of things. You managed to squeeze the HML balance in last expansion, any chance medium rails can see some love this coming expansion?



M rails are only weak relative to TE barrage ACs / TE null blasters / scorch pulses.