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My implants are keeping me from PvP. Little help?
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#61 - 2013-02-15 16:25:41 UTC
PVP. You two should try it sometime, and get back to us about pod death.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#62 - 2013-02-15 16:28:26 UTC
Just like soccer is unfriendly to casuals who play maybe once a month, only those who play everyday have a chance to play in UEFA finals. Happy with the analogy?

And yes, you do come to the sandbox and act like a spoiled child. The sandbox offers you two choices- use gear that you can actually afford, or make more isk.

That said, I could afford to pvp in full +5s. The training time gain they provide is however not worth it. In fact net gain from using them is 0 SP in the first year. You're obsessing over something very minor, use a cheap clone if you are spacepoor and enjoy the game without stress from clone loss. That is what all others do.

.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-02-15 16:35:25 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
PVP. You two should try it sometime, and get back to us about pod death.


I'm assuming I'm one of the "two". And I'm not quite sure what your point is other than just get out there and do it.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-02-15 16:43:41 UTC
Roime wrote:
Just like soccer is unfriendly to casuals who play maybe once a month, only those who play everyday have a chance to play in UEFA finals. Happy with the analogy?

And yes, you do come to the sandbox and act like a spoiled child. The sandbox offers you two choices- use gear that you can actually afford, or make more isk.

That said, I could afford to pvp in full +5s. The training time gain they provide is however not worth it. In fact net gain from using them is 0 SP in the first year. You're obsessing over something very minor, use a cheap clone if you are spacepoor and enjoy the game without stress from clone loss. That is what all others do.



Plenty of people play sports casually. That's how they get good. And please, no name calling. I feel like I've been respectful up to this point. No one person here (outside the voted officers of the CSM) has a want or desire any more or less valid than any other. There are consequences and my wants may affect your wants and then compromise can happen. But saying that I don't have the privilege to come in here in request things while you do speaks poorly to your argument.

I have no right to this game. I have no right to play it or to force change. I do currently maintain the privilege of making requests so please either tell me why this change would affect you or others negatively. If you can't, please move on rather than tell me how I should play the game.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#65 - 2013-02-15 16:46:29 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
PVP. You two should try it sometime, and get back to us about pod death.


I'm assuming I'm one of the "two". And I'm not quite sure what your point is other than just get out there and do it.


Exactly. Hop into a clean clone, leave your expensive implants behind, and get your fear of death and training time loss over with. Soonest begun, soonest done. I promise it doesn't hurt, and you really won't miss the few hundred SP difference that a day of PVP in a clean clone will give you. If you're really interested in PVP, this is the only way it's ever going to happen for you, because I seriously doubt that attribute implants are ever going away, and we both know that any sort of jump clone revamp is extremely low on the list of priorities.

Your other option is to use an alt for PVP, but that means an additional account, buying a character, or pausing training on your main to train an alt on your current account.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-02-15 16:51:38 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
PVP. You two should try it sometime, and get back to us about pod death.


I'm assuming I'm one of the "two". And I'm not quite sure what your point is other than just get out there and do it.


Exactly. Hop into a clean clone, leave your expensive implants behind, and get your fear of death and training time loss over with. Soonest begun, soonest done. I promise it doesn't hurt, and you really won't miss the few hundred SP difference that a day of PVP in a clean clone will give you. If you're really interested in PVP, this is the only way it's ever going to happen for you, because I seriously doubt that attribute implants are ever going away, and we both know that any sort of jump clone revamp is extremely low on the list of priorities.

Your other option is to use an alt for PVP, but that means an additional account, buying a character, or pausing training on your main to train an alt on your current account.


Thank you for being respectful. I think I will go out and just try it. I wanted you to know with all the other arguments being flung back and forth that yours were among the most significant in terms of adjusting my attitudes on the subject because you were civil and treated me like a fellow human being. Please continue that trend :)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#67 - 2013-02-15 17:42:36 UTC
I meant no disrespect, I used your own words about the spoiled child thing.

I fully agree with Altares, just do it and stop stressing, this game is noy about SP, it's about having a good time and getting kicks. You will lose isk and your pride will get hurt. If losses wouldn't sting EVE wouldn't be this addictive :)

.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#68 - 2013-02-15 17:46:51 UTC
Make Clone jumps timer relative to the LY distance to the clone?

same station, instant, 1 ly = 2 hours, max 24 hours?

problem solved, alliances have to commit for long trips and fights, if you want to fight in your home system you don't have to sacrifice your training implants.
Niveuss Nye
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2013-02-15 19:00:45 UTC
I am in faction war and have gotten unlucky a few times on the pods.

Now, what I do to cut down on the cost is this:

I only use 2 implants corresponding to what two attributes are what I am training for at the time. No need to get +charisma implants if I am training, say, Gunnery V. It helps that I do get a fairly steep discount because we in Faction War can ninja plexes sometimes and get huge amounts of LP. If you do get podded, do not get more implants until you are finished playing for the day.

If I get unlucky, fine.. I am only out 2 implants. Also... try to keep to the +3s. The +5s I would not suggest unless you are strictly a bear in high sec. They are much more reasonable.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#70 - 2013-02-17 11:37:43 UTC
saying u have to have expensive implants to keep up ur training time is a bogus argument as has been said.

ur acting like ur entitled to that training time. ur not. and passive skilling makes the fact that ur not on 24/7 irrelevant. if u cannot log on to swap between clones, the training lost between a +5 head and a +3 head over a week is negligible. ur warped perception where u assume u should be able to train as fast as everyone else as well as PvP is where u are going wrong. the truth is that this IS possible, its just costly.

if u want to PvP, then accept the gimped training time, or accept the risks and the costs that come with it. u cannot have ur cake and eat it.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#71 - 2013-02-17 11:49:39 UTC
Remove jump clones from the game.

The Tears Must Flow
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#72 - 2013-02-17 12:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Vaju Enki wrote:
Remove jump clones from the game.

And force those pilots that bear 1bil+ in their implants out of any t1 frig/cruiser PvP fun, or not do any pvp at all.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#73 - 2013-02-17 12:38:14 UTC
Add in boosters that give similar benefits of training implants, but for a limited time and reduced cost.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Naomi Anthar
#74 - 2013-02-17 13:29:24 UTC
Just raw number of posts and topics about attribute implants would tell you there is something wrong. But i'm not gonna discuss with trolls. Keep those implants in game and reduced pvp players. Oh well ;). In before of more "everything is ok" ... so sad it's not.
DSpite Culhach
#75 - 2013-02-17 15:57:32 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
I once propsed idea to remove attribute implants completly. That would make hundreds of people just start to pvp or pve in low/null whenever they want. They would be ok with possibility of losing the ship , paying for clone etc. But they are not ok with losing training time. I can understand this.

Keep only implants like Slaves, Crystals etc ... You want to buff yourself in pvp , pve with implants ? Still possible. But placing mandatory(let's be honest) implants in your head is kinda worst thing that happend to pvp. People are ok with losing clone, pvp frigate along with fit worth maybe 10kk but are quiet not ok with losing 500kk in implants along with pitiful 10kk frigate.

Noone can put reasonable argument behind damn attribute implants. Just rise all attributes for all toons across the board +5. Gj now why train cybernetics ? Plenty of reasons : slaves, crystals , snakes , genoltuion, skill hardwire.

Give this game best change ever - remove attributes implant. You do this and i will pvp EVERY SINGLE DAY. I will provide you many KM's every single day. But cba to lose training time becuase i have to sit in damn jump clone. Wow damn 24h jump clone. It's not even about time i don't want jump clones at all. Remove them along with attribute implants.

Whoever thinks it's bad idea must really be out of this world. You don't want those carebears jump into low sec in GREAT NUMBERS ? Because now all they risk is thier ship and clone ? You don't want number of pvping people doubled,tripled or even more ? Really you don't want ? If not keep those implants and keep those people in high sec because of that. I would do pve content in low sec and pvp all the time if you would remove those bloody implants. Now i do travel to low sec but not very often and try not to pvp - usually on pve bussiness - mostly short ones.


Since at any given time, any skill in training uses only 2 attributes, I imagine there is people out there with clones fitted with two implants they JC around with, only risking two implants per clone loss. With +4's I imagine the loss is quite manageble for low PvP activity. Still, you're right, the current system rubs me the wrong way.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#76 - 2013-02-17 21:44:23 UTC
Bow'en wrote:
I would rather the reduction get reduced to 20 hours for jumping to a JC in a different station, and have jumping between clones in the same station have 0 cooldown.

The difference here versus your proposal (which I think has merit, don't get me wrong), is that you don't have people jumping Hi-Sec down to Null, doing a roam with their Alliance/Defending POS/whatever and then jumping back out once that is done. That should be discouraged.

If you are willing to physically fly to Null and jump into a PVP JC at the station you dock at though? I think that solves the ping pong Hi/Low <-> Null stuff.


I like this! I want this! CCP, make this happen! Shocked

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-02-17 22:38:48 UTC
If your in low sec or highsec the odds your pod will be captured are really really really low if your competent. If you wanna fight in bubbles just get a jump clone.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Shyuu
Alaekessa's Mining and Arms Manufacture
#78 - 2013-02-18 00:33:51 UTC
new skill - Corpse Harvester

Allows you to reprocess biomass
Each level of skill grants you a 3% chance of recovering any implants sourced in the biomass. Each implant slot is rolled for.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#79 - 2013-02-18 01:14:09 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Just raw number of posts and topics about attribute implants would tell you there is something wrong. But i'm not gonna discuss with trolls. Keep those implants in game and reduced pvp players. Oh well ;). In before of more "everything is ok" ... so sad it's not.


there are plenty of AFK cloaking posts too. just like here its a load of risk averse players wanting to have all the benefits with no compromise.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-02-18 01:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Daichi Yamato wrote:
what makes eve PvP so exciting is the sense of loss, and the loss of ur expensive implants is part of that.



This is one of many points Marlona already addressed quite well.

Add clone cost+implants+timer and you get a nice soup tasting "less pvp" than the other way around.
The fact someone pvp in a rookie ship with 7B implants doesn't make it any better smarter skilled eve'ish but a gaming choice, it's his own choice and up to him to assume the consequences for doing so, doesn't matter he can die like that 20 times in the same day or a year this player does not represent the average player, the majority or good "uberness" example at all.

The fact someone chooses not to log in or undock because of implanted clone/timer it's also a valid choice.
Not encouraging pvp but rather force players to stay dock and not risk the implanted clone because silly timer, even if some nerd on GD said you'd look cooler doing so, it's bad for the game.

By the looks of Eve-kill and ratio implanted/not implanted then expensive/cheap implanted players who pvp, it's safe to say clone cost+timer+implants really needs a good take a look at, put all numbers on the table (easy for CCP) and find the good solution to promote pvp by offering better options.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne