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James 315 - An Apology and an Appeal
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2013-02-14 23:37:13 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Vaeliel wrote:
To parallel this for you - the criminal flagging system introduced with the latest CrimeWatch update was exactly the same thing Ultima Online did to aggression and thievery mechanics when they changed the notoriety system to be far less forgiving to criminals. The last CrimeWatch update was so similar to the Ultima Online changes way back when that I'm almost certain CCP simply molded them to fit their game. Criminally flagging an aggressor makes him open to attack from everyone, providing a huge deterrent to aggressive behaviors without outright making them impossible.


The suspect flagging system simply requires a little more thinking about how you capture your prey. No longer are you safe just harassing one person. You have to get them to aggress you.

All this focus on harassing miners in hisec and complaining about hisec security mechanics is missing something. Since you raised Trammel in your long, pointless rant, you should pay more attention to why Trammel ruined Ultima Online: the main reason is that everything you could do in Felucca, you could also do in Trammel with no risk.

Let's have a look at EVE Online: can you do everything in hisec that you can do in lowsec or nullsec? No capitals, no bubbles, no reaction labs, no moon harvesting, certain ores are missing. So right there at the base of the economy, hisec is not going to become Trammel. How can you ensure that hisec doesn't devolve into Trammel? Encourage CCP to move all industry into player hands. There should no longer be instant refining of unlimited volumes of materials. There should no longer be copious quantities of manufacturing lines available at NPC facilities.

The Trammel-isation of hisec is not going to happen. Your fears are unfounded. The platform of James 315 is based on untruths.


Quiet you Straight

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#122 - 2013-02-14 23:38:57 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Then why has the game consistently moved towards safer and easier?
Because myths hold great power over the human mind.

And carebears are the whiniest motherfuckers on the planet.


I'm not so sure about that. People play MMO's to feel like heroes, tycoons of industry and development, pirates or great warriors. These things are not possible for most people in RL.

The opposition to miner ganking that is here in this thread, or the "make clones cheaper" crowd isn't the old argument about "protect me from the awful mean PKers" It is different.

These voices aren't asking for safety, they are asking to not have to think in order to play Eve. And they are getting just that.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#123 - 2013-02-14 23:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
You know I'm gonna do it I swear to [___________]<~~~~insert name of any deity you wish, in real life I'm gonna start my own cult in RL cause people just love drinking cool-aid.

I will type up a manifesto and make myself king, people want to believe in something was what this famous scammer once siad.

Give people a cause and they'll follow and do anything for you, Charles manson knew this, Jim Jones knew this, the heavens gate leader knew this.

Tell people what's their hearts desire and they'll follow guess why religion does so well, in this 0.0 world we live in it's easy to believe in anything other then reality.

Just to add this I give kudos to -10 pirates/players cause they don't care about anything they will kill you hi sec low sec null wormhole don't matter they play and have the most fun cause they don't have MINER on the brain all the time, they don't care if the got kill rights on them, bounties nothing they just go and have fun, something that seems tough guys want but don't want the consequences.
Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2013-02-14 23:43:33 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
I can't believe someone would be so butthurt over no longer being able to kill miners with no risk at all. What the hell.

I believe that the aggression changes promote pvp in highsec, because now people can shoot you more often, you all want others to experience more risk but when you are the ones that get that risk, you scream like children. Entitled children.

You can still pray on newbs that doesn't know aggresion mechanics, you can till can flip (need a buddy for it though). Mining barges has been easy as hell to gank for way too long and unless they sit in a procurer or skiff, they can still be ganked without too much trouble (they don't fit tank, right?).

congratulations, you managed to produce three whole paragraphs that are completely irrelevant to the topic. i strongly encourage you to read the OP and actually try to understand it.


I understand what OP is talking about, I just stated that I believe differently. Eve is just as harsh now as it was a couple of years ago, but harsher on gankers and griefers who had it way too easy before insurance changes and crimewatch changes. CCP wouldn't dare jeopardize their company and do what happened to UO, I call coincidence.
Tesal
#125 - 2013-02-14 23:59:26 UTC
Too many pages. The pain!!!!
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2013-02-15 00:13:24 UTC
I seriously skipped almost the entirety of the OP's posts.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
#127 - 2013-02-15 00:24:28 UTC
OP. No.

James315 is a goon.

Thats really all you need to know here.
Vaeliel
Slander Acquisitions
#128 - 2013-02-15 00:46:25 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
All this focus on harassing miners in hisec and complaining about hisec security mechanics is missing something. Since you raised Trammel in your long, pointless rant, you should pay more attention to why Trammel ruined Ultima Online: the main reason is that everything you could do in Felucca, you could also do in Trammel with no risk.



Boom, headshot.

Everyone looking for a TL;DR, this is it. Once Highsec reaches a certain point, it will necessarily have the same effect. I joined RvB to shake myself free of this "silk prison", as another gentleman put it.

You can almost already do everything in Highsec you can do in Low / Null, with very little risk comparatively. Stopping this trend BEFORE it hits a critical mass, that's the goal.

Also many are misrepresenting my points; Highsec is the focus of James 315's current operations, but I highly advocate buffing the hell out of Lowsec and Null, because as was rightly pointed out several times in this thread there are problems with all of it.
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#129 - 2013-02-15 00:47:04 UTC
I never played UO yet it could not be more obvious to me how complete safety in high sec would destroy eve in no time.

I completely agree whit the OP and James has my vote for sure.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#130 - 2013-02-15 00:47:07 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
I seriously skipped almost the entirety of the OP's posts.


That wall of text appeared and my eyes said no.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-02-15 00:55:39 UTC
The argument that Trammel killed UO doesn't hold up because of the fact Seige Perilous existed and continue to exists to this day. Anyone who wanted old school PvP could go to Seige Perilous and get their fix.

What killed UO to the most extent was EQ and then WoW.

Actually you can still play UO today if you want to play.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#132 - 2013-02-15 01:02:11 UTC
Words like entitlement, sandbox, theme park, carebear, troll and others, are emotionally charged, intellectually empty triggers which bore the crap out of me.

I wish people would stop using them. Oh, and passion is another word in that category, but players don't tend to use that so much as game devs, marketers and job applicants.

Here is a group of words that I think describes the seesaw we are on...

"Each person designs his own life, freedom gives him the power to carry out his own designs, and power gives the freedom to interfere with the designs of others."

~Eric Berne

As long as it stays a seesaw I think EVE should be alright.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Vaeliel
Slander Acquisitions
#133 - 2013-02-15 01:08:54 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
The argument that Trammel killed UO doesn't hold up because of the fact Seige Perilous existed and continue to exists to this day. Anyone who wanted old school PvP could go to Seige Perilous and get their fix.

What killed UO to the most extent was EQ and then WoW.

Actually you can still play UO today if you want to play.


Siege Perilous is the exception that proves the rule, as they say.

For the uninitiated, Siege Perilous is (was?) one of 30 US and EU servers you could play on.

UO does in fact survive; the players who worked so hard to push development towards the way it is are probably having a ball. However, I wouldn't play it again anymore, would you?
Lord Ovuld Feish
Doomheim
#134 - 2013-02-15 01:16:37 UTC
I will be the first person to log onto a "Trammel" Eve.

If I understood your OP correctly, Trammel was more populated than the original. So players DIDN'T WANT RISK.
Wescro2
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2013-02-15 01:19:26 UTC
James does EVE a great service by demonstrating how non-consensual combat is fun not just for the aggressing participants, but also for the audience. That's the key here. Even if you don't engage in it, you have a vested interest in protecting non consensual combat for your entertainment. Needless to say James has all my votes.

Involuntary risk is necessary for the greatness of EVE. No hauler will ever consent to be ganked by bandits. No POS owner will ever consent to have their tower bashed. DaBigRedBoat wouldn't consent to having his misclick be the end of his Titan.

All the wonderful expressions of human ingenuity that manifest themselves as defenses against presumed risk will disappear, as the greatest, laziest and dullest defense will be to deny consent.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#136 - 2013-02-15 01:30:49 UTC
There will be no votes for James.

If people really cared about whats going on with Eve they will focus on the candidates that are more focused on changes to null sec/low sec and WH space. Instead making others play in a way that dont like so he can have someone to shoot on his main.

Just say no to having the same leadership that has turned null sec into an even bigger carebear playground than high sec could ever be try and tell YOU whats fun and what YOU should do in your sandbox.

I wonder if James approves of the AFK moongoo that flows out of nullsec unabated? The AFK ratting? Mining?

Probably not....

Folks wont fall for this **** show in the end.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
HostageTaker
Band of Freelancers
#137 - 2013-02-15 01:38:09 UTC
Sweet fucken Jesus H Christ!!! Shocked

Can someone summarize the OP into a 140 character tweet?! Ugh

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Titans on fire outside "The Alamo" of NOL-M9. I watched massive Super Capital fleets glitter in the dark near the BKG-Q2 gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...  Time to die.
Vaeliel
Slander Acquisitions
#138 - 2013-02-15 01:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaeliel
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote:
I will be the first person to log onto a "Trammel" Eve.

If I understood your OP correctly, Trammel was more populated than the original. So players DIDN'T WANT RISK.



I totally understand your desire for a risk free game where you can progress unhindered. I tanked the old Burning Crusade instances on my night elf warrior. There's a place for that; it's the reason WoW clones make approximately all of the money.

However, that also happens to be why I don't understand your mindset. With all the other options, why is it so important to you that you destroy a game I love to get that risk-free experience?
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#139 - 2013-02-15 01:54:15 UTC
Vaeliel wrote:
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote:
I will be the first person to log onto a "Trammel" Eve.

If I understood your OP correctly, Trammel was more populated than the original. So players DIDN'T WANT RISK.



I totally understand your desire for a risk free game where you can progress unhindered. I tanked the old Burning Crusade instances on my night elf warrior. There's a reason WoW clones make approximately all of the money.

However, what I don't understand is why it's so important to you that you destroy a game I love to get that.


People enjoy playing different ways. Why do YOU want to destroy the game for someone else rather than simply focusing on the areas of space in which you operate in? it seems like a simple equation to me: raise the reward of low sec and null sec compared to High sec and leave those who want to toil in High Sec alone. Honestly, when I looked at minerbuming.com all I saw a goonish extortion racket and nothing else.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#140 - 2013-02-15 01:55:51 UTC
Vaeliel wrote:
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote:
I will be the first person to log onto a "Trammel" Eve.

If I understood your OP correctly, Trammel was more populated than the original. So players DIDN'T WANT RISK.



I totally understand your desire for a risk free game where you can progress unhindered. I tanked the old Burning Crusade instances on my night elf warrior. There's a reason WoW clones make approximately all of the money.

However, what I don't understand is why it's so important to you that you destroy a game I love to get that.


Seems if you really cared about the game you love you would be pushing for positive changes to null sec and low sec instead of trying to blame everything on changes to high sec.

A lot of folks find it convenient to point fingers towards high sec and forget that the individuals and corps in low and null had a hand it making it the snoozer it is now.

"Blame the carebear!" "Blame high sec!"................all while they log off the forums and return to their safe little carebear homes in null sec counting their monies from their risk free activities.


What they really want is to have their risk free activities to make their isk and turn your part of Eve into their playground.

Hypocrites!?!?! The lot of them.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]