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Seems you didn´t get my point. Anyway, in the end, there are always multiple opinions. Besides that, i´d say everything what is to say, has been said, atleast once in that "Threadought" (kinda like that word).

I really do not see why my (super-)carrier alt would even have the weapons skills to make use of the darn battleship skill thus I will not train them off course. That would be pretty much beside the point of training a dedicated alt-char.

I have an alt to fly freighters (lvl 5). That alt has Advanced Spaceship Command 4, the jumpskills to 5 and is in the porcess of training the Jumpfreighter skill to 5. Why can I not get the - never to be used - racial industrial skill reimbursed to (be forced to) put in into either JF 5 or Advanced Spaceship Command 5? It does not have any other skill that requires racial Industral to 5 and there is no ship that requires the skill. Maybe if it was a Gallente freighter, but the requirements get changed after the patch, so even if after the patch a player wants a freighter char making use of an Iteron 5, he is in now way forced to skill the Industrial lvl to 5.

This character could care less about the changes, because it will be able to fly everything in some far away future anyway. But I would like for CCP to agnize that they induced specialised altchars into the game - by design or by fault is for them to decide (in fact they did already, since they started that sidekick campaign) - and to take action accordingly.

Again, I am not voting for reimbursements every time a ship gets it's bonuses changed, but for reibursements because of how the skilltree is changed (giving new characters a definitive advantage in trainingtime spent for the same usability).

Also, I even think it is a by far cleaner solution to force the characters to skill the new prereqs, because in most cases the skillpoints reimbursed would be more than enough to retrain the new prereqs anyway. In the few cases that is not enough (eg. my Freighter-alt),the character would still be rewarded for my additional training time by having to train a very usefull skill and in the end all characters where treated the same and do not have different prereq skills.




I see, but would a character like that not by design have a very hard time to make very good use of the remaps, given that to use a BS it has to have quite a few support skills within 3 different remaps anyway? Given that you actually want to use that char, the new requirements for carriers do not make it particularly harder than it was before.

It says summer 2013, right?

never mind O_o

This is exactly the attitude that killed sandbox MMOs. Want an example ? Star Wars Galaxies. Sure, let everyone become a Jedi, why not ? Lets make it a starter profession! Who gives something about the stupid nerds, who spent months on unlocking their final goal? we are not taking it away from them, we are just giving it to anybody else also ...... nobody wants to be a moisture farmer, everybody wants to be an iconic hero.... NOT

Giving everybody the ferrari, does not make everybody special, but it just makes the ferrari a mediocre car for anybody, for the ones who had to work hard for it and for those that just picked it up from the birthday box.

I understand that EVE has a legacy problem, but dumbing down existing legacy branches is not the solution. CCP always believed in orthogonal skill branches, allowing newbies to compete with vets by opting for these newly introduced orthogonal branches. Example ? While it does not make sense for a noob to directly go for a titan, it is feasable to skill for a dictor or hictor or neuters, the crucial part in countering supercaps......

Trimming the legacy branches to open them up for noobies will - to my perspective - not solve the problem but even enfore the decay. It nullifies the time investment of veterans, thus it will alienate them from EVE, because CCP obviously shows no repect to their investment. Furthermore, it takes away long time goals from the game, thus in the mid term perspective, it will even alienate all noobies, because they have no long time goal anymore.

CCP should be very very carefull about introducing new or enhancing or extending exsisting legacy branches in the skill tree, because if a new player gets the impression that he will never ever be on a par with a veteran, he will lose interest in the game. Orthogonal skillbranches were and will be the solution. While i reckognize the subcap tiericide programm as such effort, i can not follow with the proposal for caps.

Please reconsider. Caps and supercaps are established and quite well designed (now after years of tweaking) legacy branches. Dont mess with them, just because you think, it would be cool for new player acquisiton to give them an easier access to caps and supercaps. Maybe for one marketing campaign straw fire it will, but the mid term damage will outweigh any benefit. Battleship V should stay integral part of the requirement

There's some truth in what you're writing, but the thing is: it doesn't really apply to this patch.

For one thing, the intention fo the patch is not making life easier for newbies but cleaning up the mess that skill trees became a little bit.

For another, intentions aside, the effect of the patch for newbs is really not all that spectacular:

- most prominently, the Orca gets a lot easier to train. That thing is REALLY not a typical newbie ship, it's a ship for booster ALTs
- Battleships get easier to sit in. I maintain that a few days PALE in comparison to the almost 200 days it takes to fly a battleship WELL
- capital ships got easier to sit in. Again, the effect pales in comparison to skills needed. Moreover the new skillset is not even useful for ALL capitals in ALL applications. And again the change is catered towards cross-skilling or offline skilling, as there are no useful skills in the prerequisites for flying things while skilling up - as opposed to the former BS V.

Can CCP make a poll like the ones before and ask players if they really whant this change or is it allready to late and CCP cannot undo this? Seems a little bit odd this change for me. It was fine as it was and everybody got used to skill training as it is.

I thought CSM allready purposed a massive player vote until now.

This is just another clear step towards dumbing down the game (read as "making the game more accessible to a wider audience"). Just wait until Fozzie gets his hands on weapons systems?

At this rate, by 2015, a Titan will have BS IV as the only pre-requisite.

I have no problem with CCP trying to draw in a wider audience to increase the shrinking player base (less players with more alts), but wiping out ship pre-requisites is ludicrous.

Now, FC's will have to have the char's entire skillset examined to see if they are fit to fly the ship the pilot shows up in, because guess what CCP, just because someone can climb into the cockpit of a BS and turn the key, does not mean they have any business near that hull.

Well for myself since i mainly live out in High sometimes lowsec. only thing that is kick in b**** is this.
Industrial Command Ship

Mining barge skill requirement removed
Adding ORE Industrial 3 as requirement

Only reason i have Mining barge is because of orca had they made the announcement 1 month faster i would not have it trained to lv5(useless skill in my case) .
Well it would be nice if they could give option when you log in your character, to all who have mining barge skill to lv4/5(if lower than that it can be kept, would not even post here if i had the skill to 4) do they want to keep the skill points(in MB) or not(that case it gets to be converted to free SP).
But if someone has exumer skill book injected he gets that option annulled since of prerequests.
Or add some bonuses having MB skill.