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Dev Blog: No Brakes - Ship and module Balancing in Retribution 1.1

First post First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2013-02-14 17:20:14 UTC
Neugeniko wrote:
CCP Fozzie,
You mention a mass reduction to 400mm plates,
is this correct?

Neug


Well that's embarrassing.

"Why bother showing this blog to the CSM for checking?"
"There's no new information so what can go wrong?"

Oops

Yeah it should be 200mm.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Takumiro
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#22 - 2013-02-14 17:21:00 UTC
Neugeniko wrote:
CCP Fozzie,
You mention a mass reduction to 400mm plates,
is this correct?

Neug


Read the damn thing.

skink

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2013-02-14 17:23:36 UTC
Takumiro wrote:
Neugeniko wrote:
CCP Fozzie,
You mention a mass reduction to 400mm plates,
is this correct?

Neug


Read the damn thing.


No she's right it was incorrectly saying 400mm until she mentioned it and CCP Guard was nice enough to ninja fix it.

The plus side of all this is I get to watch Quackbot spasm uncontrollably.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Mund Richard
#24 - 2013-02-14 17:28:29 UTC
Kip Troger wrote:
I am a little dissapointed with the limit of one AAR per ship. It seems like it would have been more EVElike to just make it much harder to fit PG wise, meaning that you would have to make a lot of sacrifice to fit two (like the ASB and CPU). Or just put a penalty on the boost for more modules of the same type running - are there any other tank modules that are limited one per ship?

Reactive Armor Hardener (notice a pattern here? Roll) and DC (that one makes sense).

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#25 - 2013-02-14 17:31:25 UTC
Brilliantly written Dev Blog and absolutely brilliant focus on this project. Thank You guys.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-02-14 17:33:56 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
Our latest Dev Blog on Ship Balancing in Retribution 1.1 can be found here

Read what's going to be happening to Battlecruisers, Armor Tanking, Black Ops Battleships, and more courtesy of everyone's favorite game designer and Canadian lumberjack CCP Fozzie.



fozzie is Canadian?

cool stuff i thought he was american for some reason...

what city is he from?

you ever going to come to a Toronto Pub Crawl?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-02-14 17:35:18 UTC
tgl3 wrote:
Nice to see it all confirmed in a devblog. Looking forward to flying a triple-rep myrm with one of the new AAR modules!



indeed still wondering when i am going to get a second bonus for the brutix though.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#28 - 2013-02-14 17:40:36 UTC
Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2013-02-14 17:42:12 UTC
fukier wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
Our latest Dev Blog on Ship Balancing in Retribution 1.1 can be found here

Read what's going to be happening to Battlecruisers, Armor Tanking, Black Ops Battleships, and more courtesy of everyone's favorite game designer and Canadian lumberjack CCP Fozzie.



fozzie is Canadian?

cool stuff i thought he was american for some reason...

what city is he from?

you ever going to come to a Toronto Pub Crawl?


Born in Montreal (anglo parents), went to U Waterloo, most of my family lives in southern Ontario with everyone else in Canada Blink

If there's ever a Toronto meet while I'm visiting home I'll definitely try to make it. I was gutted that the last December one was just before I went back for Christmas.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#30 - 2013-02-14 17:43:30 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.


I'd like to eventually reach the point where everyone just assumes that we'll keep iterating as needed, but I know that kind of trust takes time to build.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

fukier
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-02-14 17:45:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
fukier wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
Our latest Dev Blog on Ship Balancing in Retribution 1.1 can be found here

Read what's going to be happening to Battlecruisers, Armor Tanking, Black Ops Battleships, and more courtesy of everyone's favorite game designer and Canadian lumberjack CCP Fozzie.



fozzie is Canadian?

cool stuff i thought he was american for some reason...

what city is he from?

you ever going to come to a Toronto Pub Crawl?


Born in Montreal (anglo parents), went to U Waterloo, most of my family lives in southern Ontario with everyone else in Canada Blink

If there's ever a Toronto meet while I'm visiting home I'll definitely try to make it. I was gutted that the last December one was just before I went back for Christmas.


nice well next time you are in the city and if you make it i will buy you a pitcher of beer.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Spartan dax
0utbreak
#32 - 2013-02-14 17:48:29 UTC
That Ferox makes me such a sad panda. That mid/low configuration won't do that ship any favours in the years to come.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-02-14 17:49:05 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
If I say it was an intentional attempt to troll Trebor would any of you believe me?

My phone lit up with anguished texts from BOBS pilots, you evil b*stard. Twisted

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-02-14 17:49:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Born in Montreal (anglo parents), went to U Waterloo, most of my family lives in southern Ontario with everyone else in Canada Blink

If there's ever a Toronto meet while I'm visiting home I'll definitely try to make it. I was gutted that the last December one was just before I went back for Christmas.


Its fairly awesome to think that once I graduate from University of Waterloo Comp Eng I might be able to do the same things you did to join CCP

UW ftw

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Lili Lu
#35 - 2013-02-14 17:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Fozzie, I appreciate the new skill and the reduction on mass of 800 and 200 plates. Yes these things will help somewhat with the armor disadvantages in the game currently. However, the AAR is not going to redeem the Gallente BCs.

Both Gallente BCs you are continuing to be wedged into a style of play, solo, that CCP does not favor, and which is very infrequent in the game. And at the same time both these ships are being disfavored out of a style of play, fleet with logi support, that CCP has always wanted to move players into. The AAR may see some use by those pilots that still seek out 1v1 or at most 3 or 4 ship engagements. It may have some utility in these. Although it will necessitate more slots devoted to it to work, that is an AAR, a normal repper, and a cap booster to power both reppers. Ulike the ASB which is good to go on its own (one slot) and is cap warfare safe, and can even be doubled up for an active tanking that can deal with a larger attacking force.

Also the Harbinger still seems lackluster. It has nothing redeeming really. It is a brick without a tanking bonus. Once plated it will be even more of a brick without a tanking bonus. At least there is aome alight cap relief. But really where will this ship see any use. Does it have fittings to plate up and range to use beams on Drakes? Does it have enough tank to really brawl and avoid getting capped out as well?

Thank you for posting the usage numbers, well ratios. This clearly signifies how badly unbalanced the situation has been for 3 or so years. It also shows only a minor dip with the HM changes. Have you nerfed the drake tank and range enough? We'll see I suppose. But I sorta doubt that Drake fleets will disappear. And we won't be seeing Brutix fleets now will we. Noone is going to put together a bunch of active rep blaster boats into a fleet.

Lastly, I'm still wondering if you guys continue to be concerned about the pve shield regen phenom with the Drake. Having a cheap tech I BC able to be configured to tank the highest end pve content should continue to be a concern. In that regard an accross the board increase in the BC shield time appears to be called for. The slight decrease in the base Drake shield hp I doubt will be enough to dent pve Drake advantages enough to even out the playing field more there. So how about a 1500 or thereabout regen time. Or whatever value just so long as it does not stay at 1400. As things are now I had a noobie alt getting a better level 3 boat out of a paasive shield Cane than an armor tank. And that is on a ship with only 4 mids and 6 lows. So is there any nerf coming to BC shield regen?

Edit - Wow. Good to know. I would like to see you at a Toronto meet.Smile My grandmother was born in Ontario, I currently live in Buffalo, and my girlfriend lives in Toronto, so I would probably be able to make a Toronto gathering.
CCP Seagull
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2013-02-14 17:51:05 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.


I'd like to eventually reach the point where everyone just assumes that we'll keep iterating as needed, but I know that kind of trust takes time to build.


I'd just like to confirm that the ship balancing effort is a fully supported long term project that I see as core to developing and caring for our game.

Senior Producer, EVE Online Development CCP Games Reykjavik

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-02-14 18:00:21 UTC
CCP Seagull wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.


I'd like to eventually reach the point where everyone just assumes that we'll keep iterating as needed, but I know that kind of trust takes time to build.


I'd just like to confirm that the ship balancing effort is a fully supported long term project that I see as core to developing and caring for our game.


Fozzie mentioned tech 2 and 3 ships in the pipeline as well as capitals.

What are the plans for faction boats? I know you've said that some are already fairly balanced, but what about ships like:

-scythe fleet issue
-osprey navy issue
-augoror navy issue
-exquror navy issue
-worm
-succubus
-gila
-caracal navy issue
-vexor navy issue
-stabber fleet issue (great ship but it's supposed to have similar/better speed to a normal stabber, which is currently not the case)
-hookbill
-comet
-slicer
-firetail

that have been left a bit behind in the balancing updates (navy cruisers are pretty lacking in velocity in comparison to the T1 counterparts)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2013-02-14 18:02:17 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
CCP Seagull wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.


I'd like to eventually reach the point where everyone just assumes that we'll keep iterating as needed, but I know that kind of trust takes time to build.


I'd just like to confirm that the ship balancing effort is a fully supported long term project that I see as core to developing and caring for our game.


Fozzie mentioned tech 2 and 3 ships in the pipeline as well as capitals.

What are the plans for faction boats? I know you've said that some are already fairly balanced, but what about ships like:

-scythe fleet issue
-osprey navy issue
-augoror navy issue
-exquror navy issue
-worm
-succubus
-gila
-caracal navy issue
-vexor navy issue
-stabber fleet issue (great ship but it's supposed to have similar/better speed to a normal stabber, which is currently not the case)
-hookbill
-comet
-slicer
-firetail

that have been left a bit behind in the balancing updates (navy cruisers are pretty lacking in velocity in comparison to the T1 counterparts)


Faction ships are definitely part of the plan. The reason I didn't mention them alongside the T2, T3 and Caps is that Faction ships have tiers, and therefore fall under "Tiericide".

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Callic Veratar
#39 - 2013-02-14 18:04:27 UTC
Based on the discussions I've seen, I think the next balance pass after Retribution 1.1 will be Summer 1.0 and should contain Battleships, Industrials, Black Ops, Command Ships, and EAF.

A response of "that sounds reasonable" would be great. Lol
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-02-14 18:06:35 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
CCP Seagull wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
[quote=Ranger 1]Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.


I'd like to eventually reach the point where everyone just assumes that we'll keep iterating as needed, but I know that kind of trust takes time to build.


i want stabber l33t issue


Faction ships are definitely part of the plan. The reason I didn't mention them alongside the T2, T3 and Caps is that Faction ships have tiers, and therefore fall under "Tiericide".


oki, thanks for reply

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us