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Is the bounty system a bad idea

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Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#21 - 2013-02-13 18:37:21 UTC
Well this new system is at least beter that the old one

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-02-13 19:03:32 UTC
The bounty system is good, just comes with two problems. Its use as a method to reduce gank costs and how you basically need to destroy five equal value ships to afford losing your one unless you get some really good module and salvage drops. I can definitely understand it not being one for one, but I kind of wish it was more around one to two or three on average when you include the modules and salvage on average keeping bounty hunting high risk but something that's actually more viable to have as an active profession. I really couldn't forsee even a tenth of the pilots who are interested in this being able to maintain much of a better kill ratio than that. Suppose its a great supplemental pay to highly paid mercs though and its better than the old one by far.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#23 - 2013-02-13 19:06:25 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
It has a few oddities in how it pays out the bounties as it can happen for dead players to receive a payout, too, even when they have lost in a fight. This is the case when CONCORD or another police force kills a player does it then simply pick the first next player involved in the fight. To me does this make little sense as I see bounties as a reward and dying in the process just does not fit in here.

I am also not sure how it is handled when two corporation members (of the same corporation) kill each other and their corporation has a bounty on it. From what I have read does it then pay out the corporation bounty to the corporation members, which again makes little sense to me.

I defy you to show me any formulaic system of bureaucracy which does not have Kafka-esque elements or moments. This system is still far and away superior to teh previous system.

Only way to prevent Kafka-esque events from randomly happening is to employ human arbiters for bounty-payment. And frankly, CCP will never have enough money to waste on throwing down that particular rat-hole.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#24 - 2013-02-13 19:08:59 UTC
New bounty system is pure gold for the suicide ganking community.

Its like a free 20% insurance policy for all your suicide gank ships - where the angry victims paid the premiums.

Last of all, I get to call myself a 'bounty hunter' instead of a suicide ganker, because miners always seem to have bounties on them these days. Lol

I would highly recommend increasing the payout to 50% of total losses, however.

Would make the bounty hunting profession even more attractive for us bounty hunters.
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-02-13 23:04:35 UTC
I'm kind of hoping that if nobody finds a good way to game the system then they might increase the percentage in the future.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#26 - 2013-02-13 23:06:59 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Ralinastrife wrote:
oh wow...the bounty system is good then!!!!!!

Rare instance of "rational argument convincing OP to change mind" observed.

Next such event scheduled for: 1st Quarter, 2015.



This man is an optimist

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#27 - 2013-02-13 23:09:29 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Ralinastrife wrote:
oh wow...the bounty system is good then!!!!!!

Rare instance of "rational argument convincing OP to change mind" observed.

Next such event scheduled for: 1st Quarter, 2015.


Im not sure what just happened here...im scared...

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Whitehound
#28 - 2013-02-13 23:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Ralinastrife wrote:
oh wow...the bounty system is good then!!!!!!

Rare instance of "rational argument convincing OP to change mind" observed.

Next such event scheduled for: 1st Quarter, 2015.


Im not sure what just happened here...im scared...

I blame ISDs.

Edit:
... and CCP Eterne!

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#29 - 2013-02-14 00:15:36 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Spurty wrote:
It's 'anti-scam' loaded, out the door.

Generates mails as you pew pew telling you that your wallet just levelled up, which is also nice.

Also sends notes to those who post bounties that Justice is happening. Which is nice. Cool

Nice until it becomes annoying. If there's a way to turn those off, I haven't seen it. If there isn't...CCP, get to it.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Tesal
#30 - 2013-02-14 00:48:18 UTC
I just gave the OP a bounty. Haha.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#31 - 2013-02-14 03:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Crexa
I feel the bounty system is seriously flawed. It could be a lack of understanding on my part but...

Lets say I am a miner mining away in a 0.5 system, in my Mackinaw. Along comes a ganker/griefer/pirate/spy, whatever. He blows me up I lose my ship, mods and possibly my pod. Now I am a character with 50million skill points so I have a semi expensive clone and I had some decent implants including a mining implant. So im out 150m for the ship, 15m in mods and rigs, 200m +/- in implants(+3's and mining implant) and 15m for a new clone (guessing on clone cost). So I am out 380 million isk. I don't care if its my fault for not paying attention or not, that is irrelevant. Its the number that counts.

Ok now lets say I am mad (personally I wouldn't be but whatever). I place a bounty on the ganker who has lets say a -2.0 security status. Lets say I place a bounty equal to 1/3rd the amount I lost ,127m. What do I get for the kill? Besides being out the original 380m loss and the 127m bounty?

Nothing but a kill mail !!! Likely, not even a frickin corpse! So whats the point? Revenge? How is there any revenge when the guy you put the bounty on gets to first laugh at you for mining (stupid miners), then gets to laugh after you get blown up, then laugh after you get podded, then laugh at the bounty you placed on them because they think you made them mad.

The bounty system should only work for those who lose ships (with one type of multiplier) and podded (with another multiplier). You should get your bounty back (times the sec status as a multiplier, divided by ship value, times either ship loss or pod multiplier) and the person filling the bounty gets an equal amount minus the original bounty.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
#32 - 2013-02-14 07:55:35 UTC
The only problem with the bounty system is that the payout percentage isn't higher.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-02-14 08:45:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Ralinastrife wrote:
For instance..lets say someone got pissed at me and placed a bounty on me. i have cheap implants or none at all in. I use a cheap ship and a friend blows me up. he gets the bounty and gives me half or whatever. Lets just say a bounty was on me for 20mil and the total cost of me losing a ship podded etc came to 10 mil. That means we came out on top and basically just laughed in the face of whoever put a bounty on me.

how is this a good system? if i place a bounty on someone i want him to die and dont care if he is flyin a cheap or expensive ship. I just want that satisfaction of him in fear of dying then that last second when he hears that annoying noise of your ship and pod bout to explode!!!!!!!

I dont want someone to be like... oh someone placed a bounty on me for 10 mil. hey buddy you got a sec to help get rid of it for me..k let me jump in a frigate and lets go out there and get rid of it really quick.

Go read up on how the new bounty system works. then come back and delete your post.

Witchking Angmar wrote:
The only problem with the bounty system is that the payout percentage isn't higher.

Agreed. 20% is too low to bother with.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#34 - 2013-02-14 09:35:34 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Spurty wrote:
It's 'anti-scam' loaded, out the door.

Generates mails as you pew pew telling you that your wallet just levelled up, which is also nice.

Also sends notes to those who post bounties that Justice is happening. Which is nice. Cool

Nice until it becomes annoying. If there's a way to turn those off, I haven't seen it. If there isn't...CCP, get to it.

Fair point, and that would be a nice option.

I deal with that by being more selective in my bounty placement. Of course, When I bounty someone who is particularly 'popular' I still get a raft of messages. *shrug* Good with the bad.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2013-02-14 10:24:34 UTC
I have deleted a nonconstructive trolling post from this thread.

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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#36 - 2013-02-14 11:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Crexa wrote:


Nothing but a kill mail !!! Likely, not even a frickin corpse! So whats the point? Revenge? How is there any revenge when the guy you put the bounty on gets to first laugh at you for mining (stupid miners), then gets to laugh after you get blown up, then laugh after you get podded, then laugh at the bounty you placed on them because they think you made them mad.



You also forgot how they laugh at you when they take your 127M bounty and put it into their own pocket every time they gank.

After all, the ganker 'lost' a ship. Sure, one they were planning on losing anyway, but the game can't make distinctions.
The ganker's alts make sure they get on the Concord KM by pewing it once. Bounty is awarded to the alt.

As a result, the bounty you placed went directly into the pockets of the ganker over the next several suicide attacks. You are essentially buying him new ships.

In my view this is part of CCP's plan to reintroduced a gank-victim funded insurance policy for gankers. As removing insurance from suicide ganking (without removing it entirely) was a mistake in the first place, we welcome the change.

And CCP probably won't change it - because the ONLY way to collect bounties on suicide ganking characters is to whore the Concord KM -because the only time they are going to be in a position to die is getting CONCORDED after popping some scrub in a Mackinaw. I mean, when ELSE are you going to have a shot at collecting the bounty?

Which is funny because getting ganked is probably a textbook #1 example of why someone would want to place a bounty on someone in the first place. Its supposed to deter 'crime' yet is pointless in the #1 criminal activity in highsec.

I believe the main reason the payout is only 20% is due to the overly generous insurance system.
Increasing the payout on bounties would actually make bounties pointless and 'free' to remove.

If you want an increased payout for bounties - you have to insist on an insurance system nerf as well.

Hey, I know - lets cut back the stupid insurance system - or remove it entirely! LolLol
Yes, I know...not going to happen.
Planetary Mnemonic
NightFall Division
#37 - 2013-02-14 12:07:32 UTC
Personally I think seeing that over 3/4 of players have bounties on them nullifies the point of bounties. Yes this system is better then the old one, but allowing anyone to place bounties on anyone for any reason with the click of a button is useless.

Needs to be some sort of application application system so that people cant just right click and place bounty. Something where you have to jump through a few hoops, so that if you want to place a bounty you need to work at it.

Or increase the minimum bounty to 10 mill, that would work too.

Its rare that I see a player out of dock that doesn't have a crap bounty or actually has a real bounty when I start right clicking in Dodoxi.

Other than that, the new bounty system is actually way better than the old one.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#38 - 2013-02-14 12:09:54 UTC
Planetary Mnemonic wrote:
Personally I think seeing that over 3/4 of players have bounties on them nullifies the point of bounties. Yes this system is better then the old one, but allowing anyone to place bounties on anyone for any reason with the click of a button is useless.

Needs to be some sort of application application system so that people cant just right click and place bounty. Something where you have to jump through a few hoops, so that if you want to place a bounty you need to work at it.

Or increase the minimum bounty to 10 mill, that would work too.

Its rare that I see a player out of dock that doesn't have a crap bounty or actually has a real bounty when I start right clicking in Dodoxi.

Other than that, the new bounty system is actually way better than the old one.
Except that your figure of 3/4 is complete rubbish. But thanks for posting.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#39 - 2013-02-14 12:13:18 UTC
In order for bounties to actually work. It would have to be a bad thing to have one. Now it's just a badge of honour to pirates and an annoyance for regular people who never earned them.

Bounties do not work at the moment no.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#40 - 2013-02-14 12:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
In order for bounties to actually work. It would have to be a bad thing to have one. Now it's just a badge of honour to pirates and an annoyance for regular people who never earned them.

Bounties do not work at the moment no.
How do you know they never earned them? What gives you the right to say whether the reason someone placed a bounty, was a good one or not? It's their ISK, they wanted them wanted. End of.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.