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CCP - Fix Drone aggro please.

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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-02-13 20:47:43 UTC
I fully expected some of the blow back Im receiving and that's cool. Forum warriors gonna forum warrior.

The U.I. needs work.
Insta locking drones needs to be addressed.
The progression of NPC ship type to drone engagement needs to work like its intended.
The way drones are managed (dronebay/cargo/bandwidth) etc needs to be revisted.

Other boats can run in and tank while bringing full DPS to bear. The micro management of drones when compared to other forms of DPS is not balanced comparatively. I in no way endorse afk ratting or missioning. I am all for changes that limit or remove this aspect but there needs to be a much more elegant solution that encompasses multiple aspects of drone usage to bring them in line.

Im not trying to complain and just voicing an opinion ion the hopes that CCP takes a look at the situation.


[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-02-13 20:52:00 UTC
You know I think Windows 95 called and said it wants its right click to access main functionality back.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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HellBent KillingSpree
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-02-13 20:58:22 UTC
What this thread is missing is a little more green.

"Dont let your kids play on the weekends unless you like exposing your children to several thousand drunk and drug addicts" An unbiased Amazon players review
Orlacc
#24 - 2013-02-13 21:04:27 UTC
Wow first I have heard of this!

Ya know, was in a WH with my drones the other day and noticed that if I used any EWAR, the rats targeted me and not my drones!

How cool is that! So I did a level 4 and guess what, it works there too!

I know NPC AI is scawy hard but I survived.

Now, I could not AFK as I suspect some of the loudest whiners were used to....

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Leetha Layne
#25 - 2013-02-13 21:11:36 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dyjal'Ryn wrote:
I fail to see the problem.



Try running a few missions then for a change.


I have been flying drone boats for years. Since the change I have run at least 100 missions. I lost maybe 2 lights..... embarrassing to see how much whining there is about this. Were that many folks AFKing?

That being said, only about 1% of any MMO's players use the forums and the small amount of whines about this particular issue does not portend any change.
Dyjal'Ryn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-02-13 21:11:46 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
I fully expected some of the blow back Im receiving and that's cool. Forum warriors gonna forum warrior.

The U.I. needs work.
Insta locking drones needs to be addressed.
The progression of NPC ship type to drone engagement needs to work like its intended.
The way drones are managed (dronebay/cargo/bandwidth) etc needs to be revisted.

Other boats can run in and tank while bringing full DPS to bear. The micro management of drones when compared to other forms of DPS is not balanced comparatively. I in no way endorse afk ratting or missioning. I am all for changes that limit or remove this aspect but there needs to be a much more elegant solution that encompasses multiple aspects of drone usage to bring them in line.

Im not trying to complain and just voicing an opinion ion the hopes that CCP takes a look at the situation.




Then say that.
If you come here and start whining about how Drones are broken because of the way the drone aggro AI was changed then yes, you are going to get responses that are exactly like what you have been getting, from myself included. The AI changes were fine.

I agree that drones need to be updates, but your OP was about the AI, and so you got responses about that. If you want to talk about drones as a mechanic then I'm game, because that can be a fruitful area of discussion, and something that does need to improve, but if that is what you want to talk about then don't post about the 100% positive AI changes.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#27 - 2013-02-13 21:15:42 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
I fully expected some of the blow back Im receiving and that's cool. Forum warriors gonna forum warrior.

The U.I. needs work.
Insta locking drones needs to be addressed.
The progression of NPC ship type to drone engagement needs to work like its intended.
The way drones are managed (dronebay/cargo/bandwidth) etc needs to be revisted.

Other boats can run in and tank while bringing full DPS to bear. The micro management of drones when compared to other forms of DPS is not balanced comparatively. I in no way endorse afk ratting or missioning. I am all for changes that limit or remove this aspect but there needs to be a much more elegant solution that encompasses multiple aspects of drone usage to bring them in line.

Im not trying to complain and just voicing an opinion ion the hopes that CCP takes a look at the situation.




I still run L4s with a dominix. After they fixed the fullstage aggro bugs I have not lost any drones. Mostly I get aggro from the "formal" drone aggro situations that have always been in the game - ie the missions where you shoot group 1 and group 2 which was not aggroed, aggroes on your drones without boxing you - because they are and always have been programmed to do that.

Having npc switch from dominix to sentries is actually a pretty rare thing.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-02-13 21:18:34 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Problem I see is that CCP's claim to have "fixed" the AI is complete rubbish. Y'know, the whole "cruisers don't target light, battleships only target heavy & sentries..."

My ass. I've seen battleships alpha striking light drones left and right. And the drone insta-lock is never getting fixed. 25 signature and AI is shooting them 2 seconds out of the launch bays.

They put a band-aid on a gunshot wound.


Actually, the patch says cruisers target light... but yeah, gets kind of irritating when they start shooting them the instant they launch, while other times they ignore them completely. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I'm a little worried about what will happen once I hit L4s, because L3s have proven exceptionally dangerous to my drones. I've lost a couple to alpha strikes out of nowhere..
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-02-13 21:21:56 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Wow first I have heard of this!

Ya know, was in a WH with my drones the other day and noticed that if I used any EWAR, the rats targeted me and not my drones!

How cool is that! So I did a level 4 and guess what, it works there too!

I know NPC AI is scawy hard but I survived.

Now, I could not AFK as I suspect some of the loudest whiners were used to....


Is it any particular EWAR or will all of them react to any EWAR module. I mean technically webing is EWAR and does it get the same reaction as say sensor dampening?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-02-13 21:22:47 UTC
Dyjal'Ryn wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
I fully expected some of the blow back Im receiving and that's cool. Forum warriors gonna forum warrior.

The U.I. needs work.
Insta locking drones needs to be addressed.
The progression of NPC ship type to drone engagement needs to work like its intended.
The way drones are managed (dronebay/cargo/bandwidth) etc needs to be revisted.

Other boats can run in and tank while bringing full DPS to bear. The micro management of drones when compared to other forms of DPS is not balanced comparatively. I in no way endorse afk ratting or missioning. I am all for changes that limit or remove this aspect but there needs to be a much more elegant solution that encompasses multiple aspects of drone usage to bring them in line.

Im not trying to complain and just voicing an opinion ion the hopes that CCP takes a look at the situation.




Then say that.
If you come here and start whining about how Drones are broken because of the way the drone aggro AI was changed then yes, you are going to get responses that are exactly like what you have been getting, from myself included. The AI changes were fine.

I agree that drones need to be updates, but your OP was about the AI, and so you got responses about that. If you want to talk about drones as a mechanic then I'm game, because that can be a fruitful area of discussion, and something that does need to improve, but if that is what you want to talk about then don't post about the 100% positive AI changes.


Thats fair.

I suppose my issue is with the changes to the AI without addressing other areas of drone gameplay. I understand the AI changes and dont really have a problem with them so long as they were accompanied by other changes to keep drones in line and balanced with other weapons systems. The problem is that they were not. The AI changes highlight other areas of much needed improvement or revamps and if CCP isnt going to bring that balance throughout the whole drone system then they need to address the AI until they are ready to bring drones in line.

Yes you can mission and rat without losing drones. I do it and that not what Im bringing up honestly. Its the lowering of overall DPS via microing of drones and what types of drones can be brought to bear when compared to how the AI changes have affected others DPS types that I have issues with in the short term. Im not sure drones are going to see a function wide overhaul in the near future so the short term solution is to address the AI function and how it relates to drones.



[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Kathern Aurilen
#31 - 2013-02-13 21:25:59 UTC
Souxie Alduin wrote:
My main is a Gallente pilot, specializing in drones. Since the aggro changes I have lost exactly ONE hobgoblin.
Try paying attention to what's happening on your screen, and learn what types of ships will switch targets.
Same here... I've lost maybe 3 because I was sitting bout 30-40km out and I let them go to far into the fray and had to pass and had to many hitting them on the way out.

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Kathern Aurilen
#32 - 2013-02-13 21:27:41 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
That is all.


Thanks in advance.
.... Roll Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... anything specific u were needing addressed?

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Winchester Steele
#33 - 2013-02-13 21:32:20 UTC
You know what's cool? If you actually pay attention and PLAY at the keyboard you will discover that drones are fine. I have lost a grand total of one hobgoblin since the AI change and I play drone boats almost exclusively.

Real sorry that you moaners lost your afk income source though. Cool

...

Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-02-13 21:33:56 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
You know what's cool? If you actually pay attention and PLAY at the keyboard you will discover that drones are fine. I have lost a grand total of one hobgoblin since the AI change and I play drone boats almost exclusively.

Real sorry that you moaners lost your afk income source though. Cool


Straw man

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-02-13 21:34:14 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Wow first I have heard of this!

Ya know, was in a WH with my drones the other day and noticed that if I used any EWAR, the rats targeted me and not my drones!

How cool is that! So I did a level 4 and guess what, it works there too!

I know NPC AI is scawy hard but I survived.

Now, I could not AFK as I suspect some of the loudest whiners were used to....

Congrats on your findings. Now go look at the multiple feedback threads in which people have provided feedback and note that not everyone has been getting the same results. Some aren't getting any at all. Ewar, and for that matter drone aggro in general, isn't behaving consistently.
Google Voices
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-02-13 21:34:26 UTC
Hammer Borne wrote:
I make extensive use of sentries as well as light and medium drones.

Thus far I have seen no issue. Missions as well as null anoms/sigs just require the operator to have a pulse now.



Then you haven't run very many.....

I have a Gallente pilot with 14 mil in Drones, Just for laughs, I dusted off one of my Gilas and did some Level 3's....First half dozen or so seemed fine, Had to pull in drones at times, but nothing serious.
Then, I started getting missions (Guristas), where some of the cruiser rats won't aggro you at all, they will wait until you drop your sentries, and then go after them immediately....I pulled them repeatedly, waited for aggro from the rats.....nothing. I finally dropped them again and put a medium remote centus repairer on the Garde 2 they were attacking. 3 Gurista Cruisers overpowered that rep from 40k away....

It doesn't always happen, but often you will have the AI waiting on you to drop drones....then immediately focus on one, if you haven't seen it yet, you haven't done enough missions.



Easy fix for this though, since they buffed the NPC AI, perhaps they could consider fixing the drone AI too...
I for one love having drones that are dumber that a lobotomized amoeba.

Set them for focus fire....they don't focus. Set them on the closest drone, they kill that one, then try to go after something out of range. Set them to kill the frigs, they kill one, and go after something useless.

Seems fine to me....Oops


"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."
Google Voices
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-02-13 21:36:30 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
I fully expected some of the blow back Im receiving and that's cool. Forum warriors gonna forum warrior.

The U.I. needs work.
Insta locking drones needs to be addressed.
The progression of NPC ship type to drone engagement needs to work like its intended.
The way drones are managed (dronebay/cargo/bandwidth) etc needs to be revisted.

Other boats can run in and tank while bringing full DPS to bear. The micro management of drones when compared to other forms of DPS is not balanced comparatively. I in no way endorse afk ratting or missioning. I am all for changes that limit or remove this aspect but there needs to be a much more elegant solution that encompasses multiple aspects of drone usage to bring them in line.

Im not trying to complain and just voicing an opinion ion the hopes that CCP takes a look at the situation.




I still run L4s with a dominix. After they fixed the fullstage aggro bugs I have not lost any drones. Mostly I get aggro from the "formal" drone aggro situations that have always been in the game - ie the missions where you shoot group 1 and group 2 which was not aggroed, aggroes on your drones without boxing you - because they are and always have been programmed to do that.

Having npc switch from dominix to sentries is actually a pretty rare thing.


No, it's not....Try reading more.

"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."
Hammer Borne
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-02-13 21:36:43 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:
You know what's cool? If you actually pay attention and PLAY at the keyboard you will discover that drones are fine. I have lost a grand total of one hobgoblin since the AI change and I play drone boats almost exclusively.

Real sorry that you moaners lost your afk income source though. Cool


Straw man




When the little red bars start to turn red, your drones are being shot.

It is not hard, if you are actually playing the game.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-02-13 21:37:29 UTC
Either troll thread, or completely uninformed.

My main money making ships are drone dominixs. ie, no guns, only lights, heavies, and sentries. (Meds are a waste of time for PvE, anything that the lights cant kill quickly, sentries can. If it gets too close, heavies work fine.)

Since the expansion, and changes to drone aggro, I have lost significantly less drones than I used to. NPCs now follow a priority system, or threat system, based on the type of ship they are, that you are, and what kind of effects are being performed. Thus, there are some simple tricks, to make sure that they don't shoot your drones, at all.

CCP, thankyou for disregarding this thread.
Kathern Aurilen
#40 - 2013-02-13 21:39:33 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
They put a band-aid on a gunshot wound.
I'm sure duct tape works better than a band-aid.

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!