EVE General Discussion

I'm very happy for you.

It served as a price for their skill. And now that price has changed. Now someone will be able to get all that for less than half of what they put into it. Which is one thing if its ISK. Markets change, they're primarily player controlled. SP is a bit different though. It serves as sort of a barrier to the skills. A barrier that has been reduced that gives new players going for Orcas less wasted skill training than old players. Which again, yes, specifically for them, its essentially wasted, but they all had to do it if they wanted it. Which makes a difference. I've already presented how its not just the profit that matters, that's a big part of the whole spiel about learning skills was about.

Just because you still have something, doesn't mean something wasn't lost somewhere. Learning skills? They had an advantage that increased in intensity as time went on. They never completely lost that edge. It was still there, however, they lost the benefit that allowed them to widen that edge.
Orca pilots. They haven't lost the ability to fly Orcas now, and they could fly mining barges, sure. But they weren't given a choice. To fly an Orca, they HAD to be able to fly a Mining Barge REALLY well. If their only intent was the Orca? It was just a barrier. But it gave them an edge. It took time and dedication to get it. Now? Not only will they get it easier, but someone who spends the same amount of time they did on Orcas will fly them BETTER. The barrier is reduced. Not that its a terrible thing, but it does mean that its highly likely more people will get Orcas simply because they don't have to dedicate a whole month to them and can start profiting very early. Basically the same form of damage losing a skill because it was given to everyone else does, just on a smaller scale. Whether it becomes free or the cost cut, its the same result on differing degrees.

On a side note, I really don't get why admins of forums lock posts instead of banning troublemakers. Saying you'll lock posts if things get out of hand just encourages troublemakers to cause more problems and continue their sabotage rather than learning.

Just for long enough to sober up :p. I'm pretty against perma bans except in extreme cases.

You just described every piece of technology ever released since the dawn of time. Ever.

I demand that the manufacturer of every component in my PC write me a check because I can now buy those components cheaper than I could when I built it.

Here is a little story.

Not too long ago did I buy the skill Astronautics Engineering and more out of accident than knowingly. I had bought all missing science skills by looking into my character sheet and right-clicking all that was marked with a green hook, selecting View Market Details and while sitting in Jita 4-4.

Later did I search for what this skill was used for and I could not find any info on it, until I came across an old thread where it was said that it had been made obsolete. I then went through all the blueprints to see if it was used by any existing ones.

It turned out that the skill was in fact useless. I had already injected the skill and so I petitioned it and ask for a replacement. CCP then allowed me to pick a replacement skill.

In a following patch was the description of the skill changed into:

Skill and knowledge of Astronautics and its use in the development of advanced technology. This skill has no practical application for capsuleers, and proficiency in its use conveys little more than bragging rights. Can not be trained on Trial Accounts.

TL;DR: CCP does magic.

No. Someone will be able to get one quarter of all that for roughly half the price… or they can get all of that for the same price (actually for a higher price, since they have to pay extra for some newly included bits in the package, but if we're just looking at the original package of goods, the price is the same as ever).

…and everyone got, will keep, and will still get, exactly what they paid for. Prices have constantly changed in this game, and that's not a reason to reimburse anything. Reimbursements are for things that have been lost. Nothing has been lost here — everything remains exactly the same.

Actually, yes, that's pretty much what it does mean. Again, if you had two apples and then you keep having two apples, how many apples have you lost?

No. Learning skills had an advantage (faster learning) that increased only as you trained the skills to higher levels, but which was otherwise constant (and subject to the same diminishing returns as all skill-based advantages), and which was lost when the skills went away and everyone got the same speed. You are still talking about SP, which is not what the learning skills gave you. Hell, they are not even an advantage to begin with. The players who had spent time training the learning skills fully lost the edge they had trained for when it was given to everyone.

People who have more SP may or may not (with a strong bias towards “may not”) have an advantage over those with fewer SP, but it's an advantage that, if anything, decreases in intensity the further you go.

Now they still have the same edge as before and if someone wants to spend time to get the same edge, they have to spend more time and be more dedicated before they actually start to catch up on the Orca front… Granted, they get compensated for that extra time with an additional ability, but the simple fact remains: to get the same edge as the old guard, the bar is set higher than before. Just because the old guard choose not to use the full set of advantages they have doesn't mean that they don't have them. The price hasn't gone down just because you disregard three quarters of what you bought.

…except that losing a skill means you've lost your advantage, whereas keeping a skill and others having to train for it means you haven't lost any advantage — it's just skill training as it has always been.

Not exactly. The skill is still being traded for 5b ISKs and for some does it serve for bragging.

Last time I checked, bragging rights didn't confer any kind of in-game bonus.

How so? That makes absolutely no sense.

Usefulness as defined by the effect it produces within the game, not by your own personal perception of usefulness. If the skill provides no effect whatsoever, under any circumstance of its use, then it is useless. If you value time-sinks then you are free to train Jury Rigging to V, even though its usefulness ended at IV (IIRC). In fact, training Jury Rigging to V should be a reimbursable action since it provides no tangible benefit at all.