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So CCP wants to change how clone cost works what next?
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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#161 - 2013-02-13 17:31:11 UTC
Mag's wrote:
The only advantage is being able to use different ships. When you fly a frig, there are only so many skills you use. It's the same for everyone. This is what makes Eve's skill system so great.

People should not be punished for having one account or training only one character. As much as I agree with many things you say bud, that's simply illogical. You're basically saying sure you can fly anything you want, but to keep clone costs down, you must train multiple character and have multiple accounts.

The cost of replacing many of my clones, dwarfs the medical cost. This isn't simply about ISK, it's about balance and changing a mechanic that penalizes longevity. It's about allowing people to choose.

Test v goons is irrelevant to me and this tbh.
But CCP haven't been vague. Page 48 of the last CSM meeting will tell you exactly what they think of this and even the SP loss.

I'm all for sinks and would like more to be introduced. But this sink needs a rework.


There's huge advantages to having all your skills in one character: If you move you only need to move one char, you never need to log out then back in to do something, you don't have to contract goods back and forth or remember who has what, it saves you a month training time on core skills.

You are not being punished for playing one toon, there are great advantages to that. As with all things in Eve it comes with some limitations and problems too, high clone cost being one. The assumption that playing one char should be better than playing 3 characters is strange to me. It doesn't make the game better, there are 3 slots to take advantage of, and most MMO players have more than one character. Why would CCP give players who only have one character and advantage over those who play all 3?

You made the choice, for whatever reason, to skill up one toon. While other players put up with the disadvantages and complications of working multiple characters and now you want CCP to invalidate all of that work. You can roam freely while multi character accounts must log out and back in and shuffle gear and funds around.

And this is to say nothing of taking advantage away from characters who spent months of training time and grinding faction to be able to afford their clones and gear because they could see where the clone prices were going.

If you want cheap clones then you compensate all those players that worked and planned to play the game as it was presented instead of complaining about it being unfair.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#162 - 2013-02-13 17:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


There's huge advantages to having all your skills in one character: If you move you only need to move one char, you never need to log out then back in to do something, you don't have to contract goods back and forth or remember who has what, it saves you a month training time on core skills.

You are not being punished for playing one toon, there are great advantages to that. As with all things in Eve it comes with some limitations and problems too, high clone cost being one. The assumption that playing one char should be better than playing 3 characters is strange to me. It doesn't make the game better, there are 3 slots to take advantage of, and most MMO players have more than one character. Why would CCP give players who only have one character and advantage over those who play all 3?

You made the choice, for whatever reason, to skill up one toon. While other players put up with the disadvantages and complications of working multiple characters and now you want CCP to invalidate all of that work. You can roam freely while multi character accounts must log out and back in and shuffle gear and funds around.

And this is to say nothing of taking advantage away from characters who spent months of training time and grinding faction to be able to afford their clones and gear because they could see where the clone prices were going.

If you want cheap clones then you compensate all those players that worked and planned to play the game as it was presented instead of complaining about it being unfair.

But there is one problem with your stance, I haven't simply trained up one character. I have in fact 4 high SP characters. I would have had 8, but I have sold 4 character that were way over 100 mil SP and closed the accounts. Having one character is not an advantage, that's why I have more. More chars make life a lot easier, because I can be in multiple places at the same time.

Each character I have, can do certain things better than the other.

Also I've never said it's unfair. I said it's not balanced and punishes longevity. I have also played it how it's meant to be played. I simply don't understand your stance. It makes no sense.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#163 - 2013-02-13 18:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Mag's wrote:
But there is one problem with your stance, I haven't simply trained up one character. I have in fact 4 high SP characters. I would have had 8, but I have sold 4 character that were way over 100 mil SP and closed the accounts. Having one character is not an advantage, that's why I have more. More chars make life a lot easier, because I can be in multiple places at the same time.

Each character I have, can do certain things better than the other. I simply don't understand your stance. It makes no sense.


And you personally have no problems paying for clones, you roam lowsec and have plenty of income to pay for your losses. That is how the game should be played, you are rewarded for good planning and a solid understanding of the game.

Most of the guys arguing for this are looking for a shortcut. They don't want to play the game as presented, they want the game to conform to their idea of what is fun. That works fine in a closed system, but Eve is not a closed system, and benefits to one population result in setbacks for another.

Freeing high skill point characters from the burden of clone costs will allow them up to be much more aggressive, those players will be suddenly more powerful than they were before.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#164 - 2013-02-13 18:05:59 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But there is one problem with your stance, I haven't simply trained up one character. I have in fact 4 high SP characters. I would have had 8, but I have sold 4 character that were way over 100 mil SP and closed the accounts. Having one character is not an advantage, that's why I have more. More chars make life a lot easier, because I can be in multiple places at the same time.

Each character I have, can do certain things better than the other. I simply don't understand your stance. It makes no sense.


And you personally have no problems paying for clones, you roam lowsec and have plenty of income to pay for your losses. That is how the game should be played, you are rewarded for good planning and a solid understanding of the game.

Most of the guys arguing for this are looking for a shortcut. They don't want to play the game as presented, they want the game to conform to their idea of what is fun. That works fine in a closed system, but Eve is not a closed system, and benefits to one population result in setbacks for another.

Freeing high skill point characters from the burden of clone costs will allow them up to be much more aggressive, those players will be suddenly more powerful than they were before.
OK fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Is that OK?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#165 - 2013-02-13 18:14:10 UTC
Mag's wrote:
OK fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Is that OK?


Yeah I'm good with that. Like I was telling Fukier I think CCP will lower the cost for clones on the high end. I enjoy the discussion not as an attempt to shape the game or influence CCP, rather its interesting to theorize what they might do and why. And then sometime in the future we get to see if we were right!

The other interesting thing about that is it confirms or denies certain aspects of the game that we are not privy to. Sort of a way to see behind the doors in Eve R&D.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2013-02-13 18:26:39 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
OK fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Is that OK?


Yeah I'm good with that. Like I was telling Fukier I think CCP will lower the cost for clones on the high end. I enjoy the discussion not as an attempt to shape the game or influence CCP, rather its interesting to theorize what they might do and why. And then sometime in the future we get to see if we were right!

The other interesting thing about that is it confirms or denies certain aspects of the game that we are not privy to. Sort of a way to see behind the doors in Eve R&D.


well said good sir.

either way c cp goes i am happy they are looking into it... but i am still partial to the op's ideas.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.