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Extortion ??
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#21 - 2013-02-13 13:34:36 UTC
Warped Spider wrote:
Hello all

I want to ask the question regarding the surrender mechanic.

There has been a number of Corps that have started to War Dec corps and demand Isk to un-dec them.

Is this acceptable?


Perfectly acceptable. In fact, it's practically a crime NOT to pay them.

As for "promoting smaller corps" it's a dog eat dog world out there. Only successful smaller corps get "promoted". If you can't run one, then join a successful one. If you're getting war-decced all the time you obviously can't defend yourself adequately.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#22 - 2013-02-13 14:06:01 UTC
Warped Spider wrote:
so low sec and pos towers are the way to go to avoid wars?

why not hunt them down than wait for them to hunt you.


I think you oversimplified a bit there. What I meant was that wardeccers usually camp trade hubs in hisec. Many avoid lowsec, instead preferring the safety of a station where they can dock when faced with a serious fight.

When you have a fortress to fall back to at your disposal, would you go look for your enemy in the local market? Or would you pour youself a drink, light a cigar, and see if the baddies actually dare to cross the drawbridge? If they are too scared to fight under the conditions their victim set for them, they shouldn't have wasted their ISK on a wardec in the first place. There is no point in fighting a loudmouth that has little impact on your operations. No kills on either side but my enemy being poorer is a good outcome as far as I am concerned.

Having a POS in lowsec is just one of many ways to mitigate for the effect of a wardec without the use of alts. So are intelligence channels, courier contracts, mercenaries, allies, tinfoil hattery & metagaming.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#23 - 2013-02-13 15:09:19 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:

Having a POS in lowsec is just one of many ways to mitigate for the effect of a wardec without the use of alts.


Until the day when you get war-decced by a "real" corp, one that owns dreads and is not afraid of POSes. Also the local residents of low sec may object to your POS and take it out themselves. There's always risk. Always.
Wodensun
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-02-13 15:12:34 UTC
Warped Spider wrote:
Hello all

I want to ask the question regarding the surrender mechanic.

There has been a number of Corps that have started to War Dec corps and demand Isk to un-dec them.

Is this acceptable?

Is this not going back to the days of mafia and the ways of extortion.
If this is the way of the game, why can i not go to the New Eden Police and open a case against them?


Was the intent of this mechanic to kill off all the small player corps and get them all to jump back into NPC corps??

If so, OP sucess.

If not what are you doing about it CCP? Sad

You wanted to promote the smaller corps so that they grow into med sized and take on low and null according to your last minutes?



The solution is simple really....

ebil piwate says

"Give us mony.."

to which you reply

" No. "

????

Profit


Do not give me likes them 101 likes arent a accident...
Warped Spider
Pod Mods INC
#25 - 2013-02-13 15:24:55 UTC
well thanks for all the input and if i hear another complain about being abused, i will link him to this thread.

i can see by all your reactions that life in eve is harsh and you almost have to be evil at the start to make it in this dog eat dog world of New Eden.

if you get yourself into a big corp/alliance you should be set.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#26 - 2013-02-13 15:30:45 UTC
OP unclear on concept of "War."

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#27 - 2013-02-13 16:10:11 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:

Having a POS in lowsec is just one of many ways to mitigate for the effect of a wardec without the use of alts.


Until the day when you get war-decced by a "real" corp, one that owns dreads and is not afraid of POSes. Also the local residents of low sec may object to your POS and take it out themselves. There's always risk. Always.


This is truth, and something every POS owner should remember. I was, in fact, typing from the standpoint of such a local. I think we can agree that the people throwing dreads at your POS are different people then the majority of hisec wardeccers. Legality of of no concern to attack a lowsec POS, as is the case with hisec wardecs. But you make a valid point indeed, nowhere is safe!
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-02-13 16:11:28 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Smaller Corp are promoted.

As a small corp myself I have not been wardecced.... EVER. You are given the tools to defend yourself if you can't do it yourself an ally can.


Honeslty Cane, who's going to wardec that hair?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Ginger Barbarella
#29 - 2013-02-13 16:15:22 UTC
Anyone that bargains with terrorists or pays ransom is just perpetuating the problem that the OP sees. Dock up, log on an alt, and keep playing if you are afraid of conflict.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-02-13 16:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Darius Brinn
Warped Spider wrote:
Hello all

I want to ask the question regarding the surrender mechanic.

There has been a number of Corps that have started to War Dec corps and demand Isk to un-dec them.

Is this acceptable?

Is this not going back to the days of mafia and the ways of extortion.
If this is the way of the game, why can i not go to the New Eden Police and open a case against them?


Was the intent of this mechanic to kill off all the small player corps and get them all to jump back into NPC corps??

If so, OP sucess.

If not what are you doing about it CCP? Sad

You wanted to promote the smaller corps so that they grow into med sized and take on low and null according to your last minutes?



First of all, don't get discouraged. Allow me to cheer you up and at the same time, clarify some things:

Nobody (neither CCP nor the playerbase) wants to promote smaller corps. Nobody wants to see them grow other than the members. This is a misconception. People would like new PLAYERS into the game, but "corporations" are a completely different thing, not an asset for the community or any of that.

They can TRY to extort you, yes. But resisting is very, very easy. You can remain docked and bore them to death, while their own costs pile up. You can hire people to shoot them or protect your guys, or you can enlist allied corps against the aggressors.

Also, whatever they do, there is no "mafia" situation in EvE:

-You can ALWAYS shoot back with no consecuences. Legitimate business owners could NOT shoot mobsters to death in 1932 Chicago, so it wasn't fair. And in EvE, nobody has families to fear for.
-You have safe havens (stations) where they won't be able to touch you or your stuff no matter how hard they try, how many of them are out there, or how far is their wallet.

Bore them to hell. Do not give them a single kill. Do not talk to them in Local (after hours of unsuccessfully trying to gank somebody, even Local trash is better than blank screens and yawns).

You CAN defend yourself, or pay others to do this.

EvE is not just "kill or be killed", but "kill, be killed, hire to kill and prevent being killed at the same time". In fact, other MMORPGs with open world PvP treat newbies much worse and give them far less tools to defend themselves.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#31 - 2013-02-13 16:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
A friend's corp got decced and the aggressor demanded 500 mil to end it. My friend said "If I'm going to spend 500 mil to end this war, I'm going to spend it on mercenaries", and he did. A week later with the aggressors staying firmly docked up, the war ended.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Orlacc
#32 - 2013-02-13 17:03:45 UTC
Warped Spider wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
This is fully acceptable. Even if you would give them ISK and they would continue the war despite their promise to end it: that would still be fully acceptable. Even if they gank you for 100 mil and extend their war for two weeks, that's fully acceptable. I am not seeing the problem here. Oh wait, you are an industrialist and you can't fly pew pew ships? You percieve a certain unfairness? Well, then now might be the time to start spending that ISK and hire some help.



If you noticed i am not in a corp and i am a noob still and learning.

I have just noticed a lot of people complaining regarding this.



Then let them post.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-02-13 17:09:27 UTC
Can't you just join Dec Shield and let them have the fun with the corp that war decs you?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#34 - 2013-02-13 17:16:14 UTC
Warped Spider wrote:
Is this not going back to the days of mafia and the ways of extortion?


Yes, yes it is.

Be glad you're not in nullsec.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Laris Orwan
DigiLab
#35 - 2013-02-13 17:26:33 UTC
It is harsh and eve is unforgiving but I think all indie corps should recruit and support a pvp wing whether its the main part of your corp aim or not.

Our corp is very indie based but the CEO supplies ships for roams and pvp practice and of course to fend of war dec'ers.

I love the uncertainty of the game the challenges you face. If you don't want that, as others have said it might not be the game for you.

But raher than quit why not try some pvp and encourage some corp friends to do the same. What do you want to do with all this money you make anyway. Not going to pay you a pension or anything is it......

......spend some of it on ships and blow those war dec'ers to bits or die trying. Even losing ships is fun... Honest :)

Good luck man and don't let it get you down embrace the wars embrace the game lol
Warped Spider
Pod Mods INC
#36 - 2013-02-13 17:38:55 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Can't you just join Dec Shield and let them have the fun with the corp that war decs you?


i am asking these questions as intel for me and how i carve my play style.
Warped Spider
Pod Mods INC
#37 - 2013-02-13 17:39:34 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Warped Spider wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
This is fully acceptable. Even if you would give them ISK and they would continue the war despite their promise to end it: that would still be fully acceptable. Even if they gank you for 100 mil and extend their war for two weeks, that's fully acceptable. I am not seeing the problem here. Oh wait, you are an industrialist and you can't fly pew pew ships? You percieve a certain unfairness? Well, then now might be the time to start spending that ISK and hire some help.



If you noticed i am not in a corp and i am a noob still and learning.

I have just noticed a lot of people complaining regarding this.



Then let them post.


Why should i let them post is i want to learn about the game ?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#38 - 2013-02-13 19:29:10 UTC
Surrender is meaningless when you cant make your avatar put its hands in the air....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-02-13 20:33:48 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Warped Spider wrote:
Hello all

I want to ask the question regarding the surrender mechanic.
There has been a number of Corps that have started to War Dec corps and demand Isk to un-dec them.
Is this acceptable?
Is this not going back to the days of mafia and the ways of extortion.
If this is the way of the game, why can i not go to the New Eden Police and open a case against them?
Was the intent of this mechanic to kill off all the small player corps and get them all to jump back into NPC corps??
If so, OP sucess.
If not what are you doing about it CCP? Sad

You wanted to promote the smaller corps so that they grow into med sized and take on low and null according to your last minutes?



Because: there is no New Eden Police.
There's Concord, that, in this case, simply declared legal those war dec and ask a tax for this. Basically the only thing illegal for them is making wars without paying a fee to them, what could you expect?

But, out of curiosity, you seem to consider extorsion and such as some "out of game" element, and not a legit gameplay to deal and play with. Why so?

And again, how could you survive to low sec or null if you have this idea?




i wonder if that woudl work in real life, CONCORD absically says "pay us if you want to go to war with these other guys, elsewise we violence your boats with supah-boats", concord must eb rich. imagine if a real country demanded any country in the world who wanted to go to war with someone else had to pay that country alrge sums of money/resources, or be bombed by the air force until their infrastructure is gone.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#40 - 2013-02-13 20:52:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
War declarations can be a pain for small mining corps.

But any other corp not based mining can either engage them or just ignore them. My indy (builder) corp has been deced a few times and it didn't for a second hamper my business. Just completely ignored them and flew BRs instead of indys. A missioning corp can move to a new location in high sec or simply move to low. The chickenshit high sec warlords won't dare follow you into .04 and below.

I honestly don't know why people get so wound up about being declared war on. At most it's an annoyance and at best it's a target rich environment.

Mr Epeen Cool
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