Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have to agree with you on that Ted..... I loved the Kitsune but with the t1 rebalance the T1 counterparts are 90% as effective for 1/5 the cost and easier SP wise to get in (great for new FW pilots)

and in many ways the T1 counterpart is better!

Maulus is one of my fave dplexing ships, anyone that knows what it is wont enter a novice with me for a 1v1, and my maulus has won a 2v1 vrs two rifters

5 times I have had a 1v1 with a dessie, once i died do to me screwing up with bad piloting (was new to the maulus) now I try my luck but then disengage at will, still cant seem to pop one, one day.....one day)

while the Keres has some nice bonuses like long point. its DPS is about 1/3 my maulus and it is slower and cant enter a novice plex!

Can't jam when cloaked is a point you appear to be overlooking. Decloak, target, hope the jammer hits; it's percentage-based after all. Once it decloaks it's vulnerable for 5 secs. That's enough to target - stops it recloaking - and begin to lay on the hurt. If drones are involved they'll target the ship and it's run or die time.

As few use EAF they are obviously UP for their purpose. The topic is about getting people to use them, not keeping them the same. Nerfing their primary function hardly achieves the stated objective.

After really thinking about it, the main reason they're not flown is because they're fleet support ships, as in they fill one roll and need dps dealing ships to really be effective.

Do you seriously, seriously think that I don't know that you can't jam while your cloaked? I have EAF's and recon ships to 5 and have been playing since 2009.

If your an intelligent kitsune pilot you will not even be in targeting range of a combat frigate, if the enemy sends drones at you it is viable to outrun them, and then your also assuming that all ewar ships are supposed to jam out the entire fleet which is the only way they could prevent your scenario. Then if EAF's are so vulnerable without jams then what the hell are the sentinel and hyena supposed to do? Obviously you have no combat experience flying an ewar frigate.

Completely disabling two whole ships for one ship is still a massive boost and doesn't affect them that heavily. In optimal circumstances a griffin can only hope to jam 3 ships, and we are talking about a covert ops variant here. Think of it like a black ops ship, if a sin fought a dominix is it really going to be worth the extra billion isk you spent?

While EVE doesn't really have the holy trinity of tank, DPS, healer there are similarities.

Healers and tanks traditionally don't work without DPS backing them up. Which is also why in most places where you have that you see more DPS than healers or tanks.

SW:TOR (tank, healer, 2 DPS)
WoW (tank, healer, 3DPS; or 2 tank, 3 healer, 5 DPS)
DA:O (tank, healer, 2 DPS most likely configuration)
etc.

I don't think the person was suggesting that they be given additional DPS capabilities, but was simply trying to explain why they aren't more used. There may be fewer healers than DPS, but that doesn't mean the healer role should go away any more than the EWAR platforms should get DPS to do their thing.

But that said, the fact that it only works as part of whole means that there are fewer of them.

Give them tank and remove the turret and missile hardpoints

Btw I didn't see them as having a problem

The economy doesn't really run on PvP losses. It runs because people like ships, some people like industry and trading, and some people are making real life money on RMT. If PvP losses were the only driver the economy would already be dead.

Moon goo isk rewards the big players handsomely for their PvP. People looking to fight these large entities need a way to do so that can be more easily supplemented by alternative isk generation methods, which as you point out are required. Making PvP cheaper allows for engagements like this more frequently, which leads to hopefully greater capability and effectiveness on the part of the smaller entities, the learners in this case.

PvP can be its own reward. Good kills result in good module drops. Covert haulers on standby can be brought in to quickly scoop the goodies. Lots of people make isk that way.

I think greater PvP accessibility should trump any economic concerns. Look at Dust. Small losses per death but overall a lot of isk to be made in the Dust consumables market. The same could be true of PvP in EVE.

Pretty much all that Catch.22 does is kill afk miners in empire, with suicide gank tactics. It is ridiculously easy. The crazy part? We do it for free. The module drops from the barges and occasional hauler or PvP ship we kill more than pay for endless numbers of t1 fitted Cats. Nullsec ratter kills drop much shinier stuff than empire barges.

Personally I don't like the idea of giving the EAFs covert ops cloaks. Covert ops frigs already fill the roles of scout and small sneaky cyno ship just fine.

EAFs have a problem similar to the one that AFs used to have. They just die too easily to be effective in their role as agile ewar support ships. Giving them full T2 resists and a mwd sig radius bonus like AFs would probably go a long way to fixing them without making them overpowered since they don't have as much ewar range as their recon cousins, don't do much DPS, and would still die to other frigs or pretty much anything else that kills frigs just like AFs do now.

+1 on the jamming. No question of this. I made the same point in a post earlier.

Sentinels and hyenas, in combination with SBs, would allow SBs to become a lot more effective, theoretically, against cruisers and frigates. (Was my thought on this.)

Not sure about economics! I guess the idea is if a ship is 50 mill or so like an EAF, and relatively easy to use, and is used a lot so dies alot , aren't the manufacturers happier than say an EAF BPC or BPO(?) owner would be now, when EAFs are rarely used and so likely hardly ever sell, except as a curiosity?