Intergalactic Summit

A solution would be to have the state governments of Caldari Prime be appointed by the Chief Executive Panel. Considering the nations of Caldari Prime pre-date the megacorporations of the modern State, their rightful claim to the planet is debateable. However, operating a client state system would mean that de jure Caldari Prime is State territory, but de facto is a Gallentean planet where its current inhabitants may resume living their lives as it were before the military junta was established.

You tried that a few hundred years ago, remember?

They didn't like being under your thumb.


Besides, the Kingdom (and now the Empire) and State make much, much better bedfellows.

Well now, let's not hurry to write bedfellows off.

The problems remain, as I see it, that each side wants some concrete reassurance of the other sides commitment and sincerity before they do anything concrete themselves.

The problem is in finding some small series of steps that can be taken to establish bona fides before anything major has to occur.

Self determination's a real b*tch, isn't it?

I highly doubt that such terms would be accepted by the Federation.

They are highly favorable to the Caldari State.



The same way they obviously worked for CONCORD in Yulai against the Elders ?

The same way they obviously worked in Solitude against Kador ?

Or did they just forgot to activate them ? Then why capsuleers were not able to jump themselves the whole time ?

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In any case, I do not disagree with your analysis of what would happen in the Luminaire system in such a case scenario. I disagree with the emphasis that most people seem to put on Luminaire, as if it was the crux of the matter strategically wise.

It is not.

As I said above, a titan, be it over Caldari Prime, or any other planet, does not act as a deterrent of any kind. It just is what it is : a military asset.

The Caldari State and the Gallente Federation are spread across many stars. Luminaire is merely one of them, no matter of what - relative - importance it has.



He could also unite them through other means as well...

When witness the behavior of some nationalists, it is no wonder that people continue to flock into Nation's ranks.

No thanks. Planets are nice, and I'd rather keep habitable ones habitable.

As for the outcome of Caldari-Gallente tensions in the long-term, there are really only a few viable options:

1) One empire destroys and/or subjugates the empire. I'd argue the State is more likely to do this than the Fed, but both sides are more defensive-oriented in nature than say the Amarrians, who actively lobby for conquest in the form of the Reclamation. Regardless, this could occur after a war began, if one side gained a serious advantage, and decided to press it to "rid themselves of the problem once and for all". This would be a sad day for everyone involved.

2) Luminaire becomes a DMZ and an external threat forces the two powers into an alliance. The Caldari can continue to be a sovereign power outside of the Federation, and the Fed doesn't have to deal with us (we can be stubborn, to say the least). However, we can work together for the mutual defense of our home systems, engage in trade, and maintain cordial relations. This is very, very hard to achieve at the moment, but it's conceivable if some threat like the Amarrians, Sansha, or another force arose that gave the two powers the choice between "be friends and live, or die together". Outside of an external threat, this has no chance in hell.

Two sovereign powers with a rocky history, sharing home planets in the same system with substantial tensions between them is an impossible situation to hold forever. I'm not saying this will change soon, but it can't be sustained indefinitely.

I don't see why the rest is really needed, or not after Heth is gone at least. Luminarie being under a CONCORD governed DMZ headed by a joint task force of Caldari and Gallente doesn't seem THAT far of a stretch to me honestly.

Great profit, and a stalwart ally.

Such is the hope I hold to.

An interesting, if lengthy, discussion so far.

I commend the initiator of this discussion, the pursuit of a peaceful resolution to the ongoing conflict between the Caldari and the Gallente would (hopefully) bring about a better future for all involved. Unfortunately our collective histories have suggested that old grudges die hard.

If the pursuit of peace is to succeed, it must first be sincere and it will require concession from both sides. Sadly, we are, both peoples, quite prideful. Hostility and enmity make concession a bitter pill to swallow.

The status of Caldari Prime is indeed one of the greatest sticking points in the pursuit of peace with the Caldari, as is the independence of the State apart from the Federation (though this does not belie a peaceful coexistence). To the Caldari, the original alliance between our peoples saw the constant and continuing belittlement of our identity, the restriction of our "rights" under your government and the lack of representation toward our people in your political arena. The continuing occupation of our homeworld during peaceful times, while not necessarily borne from hostility on your end, was seen as a constant thorn in our continuing existence. We desire to be ourselves, apart from the Federation, free from your governance and your definitions of freedom, virtue and liberty.

In my attempts to understand your side of the equation, it seems to the Gallente that we Caldari stabbed you in the back. When all was going well and progress was being made, we struck against you and betrayed your good will. We responded in violence to your attempts at a non-violent resolution of the conflict and refused to open the floor to diplomacy and discussion, preferring instead the Way of the Sword. What seems important to the Caldari are, to your eyes and ears, mere justifications for our pursuit of war against you. Our rejection of your principles and your definitions of freedom, virtue and liberty make little sense and the importance of our identity in contrast to yours betrays the ideals and mindset of the united Federation. What you meant for peace and prosperity we use for enmity and hostility.

Obviously my understanding of your side of the equation may not be entirely accurate, but it is what I have seen and heard from countless debates, discussions and arguments on the subject. Can we overcome such differences and truly pursue peace between ourselves? Can we set aside the bitterness and resentment that continues to grow as a wedge between us? Yes, but it will require wiser minds and tempered hearts to rule and such a stage has not been set.

Mr. Biko,

Stick to writing fiction. War is a natural process in the evolution of our race. It spurs new inventions, new methods. It is the most blatant way of saying: 'adapt or die.' War is a destructive force that erases the old and ushers in the new. The wars that are simmering now are wars that have not been allowed to reach their conclusion. The suffering of all involved is prolonged because no one will stand back and let the conflicting parties (namely the big four) fight it out.