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Incursion adjustment suggestions .

First post
Author
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#41 - 2013-02-08 11:37:27 UTC
Passing on an idea that was sent to me, refined a little; A spawn within the sites, like reinforcements arriving to help the Sansha, Possibly a simple extra wave of Deltoles and a named officer Rat with their accoutrement of support vessels, (I’m thinking TCRC spawn size) Killing these within a specified time clears the system for the next 4 to 6 hours, as long as they are alive the systems penalties would reverse at twice the standard rate. It wouldn’t matter what sites the community was doing it would move the elimination of these rats to top priority.

You could even make it so the Kundalini de-spawns while they are in control of any site in any system.

Of course a rat this tough should have an appropriate reward, introducing this rat and its rewards would possibly eliminate the current competition for Kundalini sites as the longer the incursions is in effect the greater the chance of catching this spawn.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Eterna Uitoh
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-02-08 17:06:51 UTC
So what do people think about mixing the spawns up a bit more? I mainly do VG sites so I don't know well this would work in the higher sites.

i.e. OTA's there are always a few Auga's, a Deltole and some frigs - how about mixing the types up so we could get an Ostingele and a few Mara's instead etc? Fleets would have a good idea of ship numbers but not ship types, this could add some excitement and fluid kill orders.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#43 - 2013-02-08 23:57:44 UTC
Different vein, similar idea, involving making scout sites relevant:

Make scouts a lot more like VGs, but instead of battleships and T2 logi make it a fleet of cruisers (not T3) and T1 logi. It would be more inline with CCPs new philosophy on ship progression, gives low skill pilots a relevant into to incursions, and probably be a lot of fun. With the cheaper ships, might even see some fleets test the waters in low sec (before being disappointed when nobody pops the mom).

Same distribution of 9-11 ships, cut the payout by half or 2/3, and you'd be real damn close to a good solution.

I am not an alt of Chribba.

Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-02-10 05:00:43 UTC
Hmmm.... Little Things, eh?

The sansha Influene Bar ranges from all red with 100% penalties to all blue with 0% penalties. The appearance of this bar when you're in an Incursion constellation is always different from what the Journal Global Incursion Report shows. It's something that has always been considered a bug by the players. Fixing that would be a nice little thing.

The way fleet booster bonuses flow down through the Wing Commander position is broken and has been broken for a long time. If you could fix that, not only would Incursion runners love you even more, EVERY fleet participant everywhere would love you. This takes on extra importance with the upcoming changes that have been announced for Command Ships vs T3 booster ships. Getting all the bonuses properly applied - working as they're supposed to - would be way more than a little thing.

Although it is sandbox-y player-driven content, there have been some tensions between various Incursion communities these last few months that too often result in NO highsec incursions for extended periods of time. You could argue that an entire weekend without a single highsec incursion is content destruction. As a final "little thing", maybe you could tweak the server code to shorten the spawn time for a new highsec incursion when the last one in highsec is killed off. That would certainly help to reduce the impact of drama queens who feel it is their right to shut down the content for everyone else when they get peeved.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#45 - 2013-02-10 11:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP Affinity wrote:

Also to answer your concern Crash Lander - I asked for little improvements we could make to the current system. I am not promising anything nor have I asked for huge world shaping changes - I just want to hear the communities thoughts on smaller scale changes we can do to make a difference to Incursions.


Right now the armour Incursion community is suffering due to PvE & Incursion site mechanics which favor shield ships TBH & its nose diving ( I guess shields have a disadvantage in PvP so maybe thats the balance? ). The Escalation nerf REALLY gave shield fits a great advantage in all 11 non-scout sites except NCOs (NCO's only because armour came upwith the MWD fleet doctorine; shield fleets now have advantage even there contesting non MWD armour fleets). Some sort of little change to balance that would possibly help. Whomever claimed to give you any insight about the armour community out meta gamed CCP employees TBH Affinity because I have not heard one person from the armour community that said they were contacted by CCP.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Makavelia
National Industries
#46 - 2013-02-10 17:07:13 UTC
I have tried most things in eve now and it makes my brain hurt at how easy incursion is for the reward you get. And it gets worse, FW plex farming.. as i've read o0, isk for being afk? Shocked?.

Exploration puts in far more effort and far more risk (unless you live in some carebear nul area) than both incursion and FW put together... yet, the rewards for the evg explorer don't compete with a afk FW farmer or a avg skilled incursion runner. At-least not in my experiance.


Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#47 - 2013-02-11 08:32:56 UTC
Scout sites need to be more challenging, pay better, and require more people in fleet. Id make each value a little lower than Vanguards, but not as low as it is now where Scout sites may as well be removed from the game. T1 cruisers and below to get through gate, 5mil payout, 7min completion time, 5-7 fleet members. Something like that.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#48 - 2013-02-11 10:30:52 UTC
Swidgen wrote:
Hmmm.... Little Things, eh?

The sansha Influene Bar ranges from all red with 100% penalties to all blue with 0% penalties. The appearance of this bar when you're in an Incursion constellation is always different from what the Journal Global Incursion Report shows. It's something that has always been considered a bug by the players. Fixing that would be a nice little thing.

The way fleet booster bonuses flow down through the Wing Commander position is broken and has been broken for a long time. If you could fix that, not only would Incursion runners love you even more, EVERY fleet participant everywhere would love you. This takes on extra importance with the upcoming changes that have been announced for Command Ships vs T3 booster ships. Getting all the bonuses properly applied - working as they're supposed to - would be way more than a little thing.

Although it is sandbox-y player-driven content, there have been some tensions between various Incursion communities these last few months that too often result in NO highsec incursions for extended periods of time. You could argue that an entire weekend without a single highsec incursion is content destruction. As a final "little thing", maybe you could tweak the server code to shorten the spawn time for a new highsec incursion when the last one in highsec is killed off. That would certainly help to reduce the impact of drama queens who feel it is their right to shut down the content for everyone else when they get peeved.


Great post :) thanks! Hope to see some more like this

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Team Astro Sparkle

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#49 - 2013-02-11 12:20:13 UTC
Would Like to add one more thing to the Fleet 'Flaws' as an FC i spend way to much time tagging, if they could add a hotkey for tagging that would be great.

I am imagining hold 'ctrl' and 'x' (due to keyboard placement) and each target you click on gets an ascending tag, first would be 1 then 2 so on and so forth, 'ctrl' and 'c' same thing except letters a, b, c ...

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

SkyMarshaller
SkyMarshaller Corp
#50 - 2013-02-12 10:44:58 UTC
As a relative newcomer to incursions, I thought twice about posting a response to this. Then again a new person's perspective might add something to this discussion.

I agree with the other people who have suggested that scout sites need a (positive) buff. These sites should be made more attractive to people wanting to try incursions, perhaps restricting these sites to BC's only. They could also be used as training grounds for budding FC's & logi pilots. This would avoid the many people who have bitter experiences in their initial ventures into the world of incursions, never to return.

I also believe sites (esp VG's) need to be randomised more & perhaps even made a little harder the longer you take - I recall Kodavor making this suggestion & I submit that it's one of the best so far.

Finally & bearing in mind that everything in EvE is a contest (in one form or another), I believe that there should a bonus (perhaps a +25% ISK bonus) to the fleet that wins a contested site. I realise that every anti-ISN person will probably hate this idea, but would it not be an incentive for everyone to lift their game & get better. Those against competition simply want to use incursions as a simplistic method of making ISK, so that they can simply grind through site after site. You are missing the whole point of the game & missing out on the fun.

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#51 - 2013-02-12 16:54:34 UTC
What if there was inert structures in incursion sites that if destroyed would increase the difficulty and payout of the site.

Structures that do not need to be destroyed to complete the site, but if they are destroyed they will spawn additional elite Sansha ships making the site more difficult for more elite fleets.

To actually encourage fleets to pop these structures it would have to increase the rewards of the site as well as the difficulty. Like a signal beacon, that if destroyed causes additional reinforcement waves of higher value Sansha ships. Or triggers any of the suggestions in the OP.

To prevent this being used to grieve a fleet make the structure unlockable unless the FC designates it as a target, So individual grievers can not come into the site and cause extra waves to spawn on fleets that do not want the extra challenge.

Just a thought, but it would be nice to have a mechanic where elite fleets can upgrade the incursions to make them not only more challenging, but more profitable,. While at the same time leave incursions as they are for the less elite fleets.

This could at the same time make contesting sites more interesting, as either fleet could spawn the extra waves to help compensate for the added DPS of the additional fleet.

The extra spawns could even scale according to how many ships are on grid. If triggered while a site is being contested the additional waves could be doubled.
Kithran
#52 - 2013-02-12 19:55:01 UTC
SkyMarshaller wrote:
(SNIP)

Finally & bearing in mind that everything in EvE is a contest (in one form or another), I believe that there should a bonus (perhaps a +25% ISK bonus) to the fleet that wins a contested site. I realise that every anti-ISN person will probably hate this idea, but would it not be an incentive for everyone to lift their game & get better. Those against competition simply want to use incursions as a simplistic method of making ISK, so that they can simply grind through site after site. You are missing the whole point of the game & missing out on the fun.



This is a ridiculous suggestion - you already get a massive boost for winning a contested site - because there are two fleets (or more) you get the site completed far faster, win 3 contested sites in a row and you may have taken as long to do two sites without help - how much more do you want?

Added to which it would be incredibly easy to abuse - simply have a couple of alts form another fleet, one of them enters with the main fleet and gets locked up by the logi so it doesn't die if it happens to get aggro and voila - instant 25% boost in ISK to the fleet.
SkyMarshaller
SkyMarshaller Corp
#53 - 2013-02-13 03:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: SkyMarshaller
Kithran wrote:
SkyMarshaller wrote:
(SNIP)

Finally & bearing in mind that everything in EvE is a contest (in one form or another), I believe that there should a bonus (perhaps a +25% ISK bonus) to the fleet that wins a contested site. I realise that every anti-ISN person will probably hate this idea, but would it not be an incentive for everyone to lift their game & get better. Those against competition simply want to use incursions as a simplistic method of making ISK, so that they can simply grind through site after site. You are missing the whole point of the game & missing out on the fun.



This is a ridiculous suggestion - you already get a massive boost for winning a contested site - because there are two fleets (or more) you get the site completed far faster, win 3 contested sites in a row and you may have taken as long to do two sites without help - how much more do you want?

Added to which it would be incredibly easy to abuse - simply have a couple of alts form another fleet, one of them enters with the main fleet and gets locked up by the logi so it doesn't die if it happens to get aggro and voila - instant 25% boost in ISK to the fleet.


Point taken Kithran.

I guess I'm one of those people that doesn't automatically see the darker side of people - but then again this is EvE!

That said, surely a game mechanic could be devised whereby the "winner" of a genuinely contested incursion site was adequetely rewarded for their efforts. Contested sites are a lot more fun than your normal run of the mill sites - sort of like "Incursions on steroids".
Ludus Lucrius
WildCards 22nd
#54 - 2013-02-13 09:26:59 UTC
Hi

Contested sites rewards should be split among contesting fleets in proportion to their contribution to site completion (damage dealt for example).
Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#55 - 2013-02-13 09:30:44 UTC
goldiiee wrote:
Would Like to add one more thing to the Fleet 'Flaws' as an FC i spend way to much time tagging, if they could add a hotkey for tagging that would be great.

I am imagining hold 'ctrl' and 'x' (due to keyboard placement) and each target you click on gets an ascending tag, first would be 1 then 2 so on and so forth, 'ctrl' and 'c' same thing except letters a, b, c ...


Please implement this yesterday . Please ... ?
BlackPyroStorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-02-13 10:10:48 UTC
Ludus Lucrius wrote:
Contested sites rewards should be split among contesting fleets in proportion to their contribution to site completion (damage dealt for example).

To the victor go the spoils.

I do like that idea of a static trigger in sites to escalate them for greater risk=greater reward especially in the smaller sites vg/assault. I would also like to see some more specific roles introduced to incorporate e-war use and thus all round more tactical approach to sites rather than just warp in and press F1-4 for the duration of a site with the occasional broadcast for reps.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#57 - 2013-02-13 10:59:36 UTC
Kodavor wrote:
goldiiee wrote:
Would Like to add one more thing to the Fleet 'Flaws' as an FC i spend way to much time tagging, if they could add a hotkey for tagging that would be great.

I am imagining hold 'ctrl' and 'x' (due to keyboard placement) and each target you click on gets an ascending tag, first would be 1 then 2 so on and so forth, 'ctrl' and 'c' same thing except letters a, b, c ...


Please implement this yesterday . Please ... ?



This is my favourite idea so far :) Will see what we can do.. no promises though :P

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Team Astro Sparkle

DotheBarrel Roll
#58 - 2013-02-13 11:23:57 UTC
it's not like that wasn't proposed in the past (and trolled to oblivion.. i think in the end ppl suggested to use autoit macros)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1692126#post1692126
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#59 - 2013-02-13 11:40:58 UTC
DotheBarrel Roll wrote:
it's not like that wasn't proposed in the past (and trolled to oblivion.. i think in the end ppl suggested to use autoit macros)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1692126#post1692126

Yeah I added it to soundwaves little thing thread a long time ago, was a little more detailed then,
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1710598#post1710598

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#60 - 2013-02-13 13:08:48 UTC
DotheBarrel Roll wrote:
it's not like that wasn't proposed in the past (and trolled to oblivion.. i think in the end ppl suggested to use autoit macros)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1692126#post1692126



Well I don't have the entire history of ideas suggested on the forums memorized, unfortunately ;) I think it fits well with the little things to help Incursion runners so I am looking in to it

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle