These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Fiction

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The might of CONCORD and peace.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tykari
The Observatory
#1 - 2013-02-12 23:58:04 UTC
This is one of those things I've thought about a couple of times and with recent events it's been on my mind again. How well can CONCORD enforce the peace should it ever come down to them?

The Empires are from what I understand reasonably well balanced against each other. As a result CONCORD taking a side could be a real deterrent. Now with the recent disruptions in the State, which looks like it could be heading to a full blown civil war if this keeps up, CONCORD already issued a warning that anyone trying to use this as an excuse to invade would suffer the consequences. But if the State gets weakened because of civil war and the Federation would decide to act, would CONCORD really be able to stop it from happening?

CONCORD and DED ships, while not as powerful as game mechanics require them to be, are pretty damn powerful compared to the ships the Empire fleets can field. But if a full blown war were to happen and they had no other option than join in the fighting would they really be able to do anything? Or would the Empires just flatten them?

The last conflict they were involved in with, the Elder fleet incident, didn't exactly go that great for them, and by all accounts the Empire Navies are able to field bigger fleets. So has CONCORD been bluffing the Empires big time and just been hoping none of them catch on?

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2013-02-13 09:03:56 UTC
The attack on CONCORD was a sneak attack, which is why they were able to do so much damage. CONCORD never imagined someone would attack them, of all people. It's like tugging on Superman's cape.

Now that they are prepared, it's unlikely they'd be so quickly taken out again.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#3 - 2013-02-13 09:26:36 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
The attack on CONCORD was a sneak attack, which is why they were able to do so much damage. CONCORD never imagined someone would attack them, of all people. It's like tugging on Superman's cape.

Now that they are prepared, it's unlikely they'd be so quickly taken out again.


Except for the part that they got a ten days notice which they simply ignored.
I mean, after that damn Thukker fleet managed to jump right into Yulai, who would have thought they were able to do that again, right? :p
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2013-02-13 09:53:28 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
The attack on CONCORD was a sneak attack, which is why they were able to do so much damage. CONCORD never imagined someone would attack them, of all people. It's like tugging on Superman's cape.

Now that they are prepared, it's unlikely they'd be so quickly taken out again.


Except for the part that they got a ten days notice which they simply ignored.
I mean, after that damn Thukker fleet managed to jump right into Yulai, who would have thought they were able to do that again, right? :p


Well, there's a simple reason for that and it's - OH MY GOD LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU!

*runs*

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Tykari
The Observatory
#5 - 2013-02-13 11:50:25 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Sephira Galamore wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
The attack on CONCORD was a sneak attack, which is why they were able to do so much damage. CONCORD never imagined someone would attack them, of all people. It's like tugging on Superman's cape.

Now that they are prepared, it's unlikely they'd be so quickly taken out again.


Except for the part that they got a ten days notice which they simply ignored.
I mean, after that damn Thukker fleet managed to jump right into Yulai, who would have thought they were able to do that again, right? :p


Well, there's a simple reason for that and it's - OH MY GOD LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU!

*runs*

Actually they had 30 days rather than 10 and a CONCORD fleet counting in the hundreds was present under command of Admiral Elladall just in case the Elder fleet did show up again. And we all know how that worked out for them.

As for CONCORD never imagining someone would do it. Aren't they still somewhat arrogant in their thinking they are untouchable, despite what happened on that day? For all their boasting their record on how well they've dealt with battle situations isn't all that impressive really. To me the biggest advantage they have is that CONCORD's ships use the best tech from the Empires combined together giving them an edge. But having that edge only does so much.

There are some hints they have a few capital ships, mostly Empire design as opposed to their own, but I doubt it's anywhere near the level of what the Empires can field.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#6 - 2013-02-13 21:54:33 UTC
Compared to any of the empires, CONCORD is pratically nothing. However, through careful programs of espionage, sabotage, theft, and infiltration, CONCORD has managed to get the 4 empires on equal footing, especially technologically. In fact they've done so well, that almost the entire technology base of the four empires is available comercially, since anyone could get it on the black market anyway. Why else are we able to fly an Abaddon one day, and a Caldari Navy Raven the next?

So, that being the case, CONCORD only has to throw their weight behind any empire that comes under attack to tip the scales just enoguh for the aggressor to know they can't win. Their real power is in their information network, not their fleet. I've always figured that if every capsuleer everywhere in high-sec commited a crime at once, 99% of them would get away with it.

All that said, if the Caldari State does significantly weaken itself via civil war...then no, there's probably nothing CONCORD could do to protect them from the Federation. Not that they woudln't necessarily do a lot of damage, and that alone might be enough to keep the relatively peace-minded Gallente from making a move (except to liberate Caldari Prime because god damn it it's been 5 fricking years)
Mund Richard
#7 - 2013-02-13 22:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Jiska Ensa wrote:
All that said, if the Caldari State does significantly weaken itself via civil war...then no, there's probably nothing CONCORD could do to protect them from the Federation. Not that they woudln't necessarily do a lot of damage, and that alone might be enough to keep the relatively peace-minded Gallente from making a move (except to liberate Caldari Prime because god damn it it's been 5 fricking years)

But would the Empire do nothing as well?

Recall reading something about the Amarr making a move against the Jove because they thought the Federation would put up a better fight than they'd wish to get.
Things didn't quite turn out the way they planned, but moving on.

Imagine if the State would undo itself.
What would be left is smoke and rubble, the Empire with it's slaves, the Federation full of people preaching about equality with a dislike to slavery (and quite a bit of ex-slave minority not keen on slavery), and elsewhere a lot of ex-slaves who have an ax to grind with their former masters.

I think the State weakening is quite on top of the list of bad things that can happen to the Empire without directly happening to her.
CONCORD just needs to help the Amarr with whatever intel it can, doesn't even have to be direct and legit, but data turning up here and there.
Not sure if it's enough, but it starts tipping the balance.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Eliniale
Co-operative Resource Extraction
#8 - 2013-02-26 11:50:07 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
The attack on CONCORD was a sneak attack, which is why they were able to do so much damage. CONCORD never imagined someone would attack them, of all people. It's like tugging on Superman's cape.

Now that they are prepared, it's unlikely they'd be so quickly taken out again.


I distinctly remember Kuvakei incading Yulai YET AGAIN with a sansha fleet. Sure, concord wasn't their main objective at that time, but CONCORD's response was impotent to say the least.

So as far as defending their HQ goes, CONCORD has pulled a really crappy job thusfar.

Also if I remember correctly CONCORD's mission statment is to prevent capsuleers from abusing their power and the empires from going fullblown war on eachother. (Again doing a pisspoor job of the lattern, the militia has been tearing out eachother's throats for a few years now).
How would concord deal with having to keep the Gallente from invading Caldari (something I consider much more likely after having heard the speech of Blacque on the rally a few days back), AND keep the eggers from abusing their power. Because if and when, gal-cald relations reach a full blown war, you can bet your ass eggers will betaking advantage of the lack of a CONCORD presence.

Moreover, having Yulai IX remain a field of wreckage doesn't inspire much more confidence than their track record.

System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread
Saul Elsyn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-02-26 20:23:37 UTC
Honestly, the creation of the militias was an emergency response measure by CONCORD to limit the escalation of the war. Currently the conflict between the Empires is little more than a large scale proxy war with the militias being the pawns of the Empires. Aside for what happened in Templar One and the Empyrean Age (Where CONCORD was rendered impotent by the destruction in Yulai) large scale engagements have not really happened in New Eden between the Empires. In fact the attack launched by the Minmatar against the Amarr wasn't even made up of the Minmatar Republic's forces.

Now... CONCORD has a number of advantages over the Empires if they are ever forced into open combat... for one thing they can almost instantaneously deliver massed firepower anywhere in high security space and have a mind blowing response time indicative of warp speeds much higher then our ships. Apparently from what we see in Empyrean Age, normally they also can prevent the deployment of hostile forces into secured space through Cyno Field Jammers. Now these defenses can be worked around by cloak and dagger (Steal the codes!) or loosing command and control (like what happened when Yulai got hit in Empyrean Age).
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-02-26 20:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Don't forget the CONCORD is backed up by five empires. I'm fairly sure Jovians will have something to say as well if it comes down to all-out war.
While Jovians are more of the "Gray Cardinal" types, they have demonstrated they have the tech, manpower and willingness to come down and deliver a kick to the nuts if required on several occassions (Vak'Atioth being one of the prime examples).
Tykari
The Observatory
#11 - 2013-02-26 21:07:16 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Don't forget the CONCORD is backed up by five empires. I'm fairly sure Jovians will have something to say as well if it comes down to all-out war.
While Jovians are more of the "Gray Cardinal" types, they have demonstrated they have the tech, manpower and willingness to come down and deliver a kick to the nuts if required on several occassions (Vak'Atioth being one of the prime examples).


I'm not so sure we would be able to count on the Jove. Wasn't part of the whole reason to broke their stargate links and went into isolation, so they wouldn't end up getting involved in war and politics with the other Empires? And that is assuming there are enough of them left, which we can't really be sure of.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-02-27 06:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Tykari wrote:
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Don't forget the CONCORD is backed up by five empires. I'm fairly sure Jovians will have something to say as well if it comes down to all-out war.
While Jovians are more of the "Gray Cardinal" types, they have demonstrated they have the tech, manpower and willingness to come down and deliver a kick to the nuts if required on several occassions (Vak'Atioth being one of the prime examples).


I'm not so sure we would be able to count on the Jove. Wasn't part of the whole reason to broke their stargate links and went into isolation, so they wouldn't end up getting involved in war and politics with the other Empires? And that is assuming there are enough of them left, which we can't really be sure of.

They're always around, they have a network of spies spanning throughtout the whole know (and perhaps even some unknown parts) of the cluster. As for intervention - while this, indeed, is highly unlikely, Jove are as much insterested in cluster's stability as we are. They may do so indirectly first, throughout carefully planted agents.

Was it ever explained in PF how come all the new technology suddenly gets available to all of the four accessible factions w/o any one gaining a decisive advantage over the others? I blame Jovians!
Tykari
The Observatory
#13 - 2013-02-27 18:08:35 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Tykari wrote:
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Don't forget the CONCORD is backed up by five empires. I'm fairly sure Jovians will have something to say as well if it comes down to all-out war.
While Jovians are more of the "Gray Cardinal" types, they have demonstrated they have the tech, manpower and willingness to come down and deliver a kick to the nuts if required on several occassions (Vak'Atioth being one of the prime examples).


I'm not so sure we would be able to count on the Jove. Wasn't part of the whole reason to broke their stargate links and went into isolation, so they wouldn't end up getting involved in war and politics with the other Empires? And that is assuming there are enough of them left, which we can't really be sure of.

They're always around, they have a network of spies spanning throughtout the whole know (and perhaps even some unknown parts) of the cluster. As for intervention - while this, indeed, is highly unlikely, Jove are as much insterested in cluster's stability as we are. They may do so indirectly first, throughout carefully planted agents.

Was it ever explained in PF how come all the new technology suddenly gets available to all of the four accessible factions w/o any one gaining a decisive advantage over the others? I blame Jovians!


Part of that is the Yulai convention I think, which makes it that Empires have to share technological breakthroughs with eachother. So basicly it's CONCORD keeping an eye out. Though I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are many secret projects nobody knows about being researched by the big 4, in fact Templar One and DUST seems to illustrate that rather well, it's only after they secured/rescued Vince/Templar One and studied his implant that the other Empires managed to get their own clone soldiers going. Though CONCORD already knew they were are all trying to find a way to do it.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
Gen Fesslenski
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-03-03 04:13:00 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Don't forget the CONCORD is backed up by five empires. I'm fairly sure Jovians will have something to say as well if it comes down to all-out war.
While Jovians are more of the "Gray Cardinal" types, they have demonstrated they have the tech, manpower and willingness to come down and deliver a kick to the nuts if required on several occassions (Vak'Atioth being one of the prime examples).


Vak'Atioth went terribly all things seriously considered. When you look at the numbers, intelligence advantage, then losses on both sides, you could almost say the Jove should have taken next to no losses. They had a 'Super-Titan' with weapons custom built to take advantage of Amarrian resistances, and frigates and cruisers that should ahve been extremely hard to hit, yet they lost 1/3 of thier fleet and I see no talk of them having support, logistics or many of the other important elements of a good fleet. Remember that they have clone technology and *should* have had far superior ship technology, and were fighting normal human creped ships, comparable to us fighting PvE ships.

If the Jovians involve themselves the only people that will know are the highest echelons of the Caldari imo. I daresay that the four empires atm are much better on a tactical level than the Jove, but the Jove have an insane amount of intel and I think that could be enough alone to rally them well enough in advance to flatten any other empire that want's to kick them while their at war. Alos, the Jovians still have a legendary influence over the perceived landslide that was Vak'Atioth so I imagine their very announcement would cause Amarr/Minmatar/Gallente to think twice. It would be a very costly war in any case.