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Eve Central and the Contribtastic
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Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-02-10 08:55:12 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
Isn't it against the EULA to use macro's? If so isn't the EVE Central Contribtastic "which gets the client to search market for the item that EVE Central need." which is against the EULA isn't it?

I know its one of those things that CCP will probably ignore because it actually helps the game but it does make a grey area I'm not happy with.


The 3rd party tools that do the market scraping (used by eve mon, eve-centeral, eve-marketeer, etc) only grabs data on items when you click on that item in the market window. it doesn't iterate though the market windows automatically for you, or pull up data magically without you (the player) clicking on items which are then stored on your local machine and then scrapped though by these 3rd party tools.

If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#22 - 2013-02-10 09:08:45 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.


There are perfectly legal tools that cycle through market windows. They use hooks that CCP intentionally put into the IGB for that use and whose use is explicitly allowed by CCP.

They do not buy anything, they simply cycle through the market, updating caches.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-02-13 03:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Dallas
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."


I'm sure there are interpretations, but my interpretation of this statement is "in game"

IE, eve central may help me to figure out profitability of an item to purchase in game. But it is not purchasing the item for me in game. I am doing that when I right click "buy"

When that statement talks about acquisition of objects etc, IMO it is talking about just that. Buying the objects for instance. I don't have a macro creating 100 buy orders. I am creating 100 buy orders. Whether I used an external resource to figure out what to create 100 buy orders for is not relevant here.




Depends on what you mean by patterns of play and weather you are still playing the game when you use third party apps. And at least in my opinion when you use EFT or anything that you do that links into the game your playing the game but that isn't using any macros or anything so yeah.

if they wanted to say that you can't interfere with the client or the connection to the server etc they could have said so.

"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-02-13 03:54:17 UTC
Quote:
The 3rd party tools that do the market scraping (used by eve mon, eve-centeral, eve-marketeer, etc) only grabs data on items when you click on that item in the market window.


Nope if you use http://eve-central.com/home/upload_suggest.html with the Contribtastic it opens up the market tab and will start flipping though market data.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#25 - 2013-02-13 03:54:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:
If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.


There are perfectly legal tools that cycle through market windows. They use hooks that CCP intentionally put into the IGB for that use and whose use is explicitly allowed by CCP.

They do not buy anything, they simply cycle through the market, updating caches.


CCP Sreegs may have banned them today, though. I'm not sure.

Consider sending in a petition about them before use.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-02-13 04:00:20 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:
If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.


There are perfectly legal tools that cycle through market windows. They use hooks that CCP intentionally put into the IGB for that use and whose use is explicitly allowed by CCP.

They do not buy anything, they simply cycle through the market, updating caches.


Thank you someone who knows what there talking about thank you, then there is no conflict with the EULA or anything else. And if the hooks are there and they want to ban them then they should simply remove them, because its simply using what CCP has put there so they can f*** off until they remove them if its such a big deal.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#27 - 2013-02-13 04:03:11 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
Thank you someone who knows what there talking about thank you, then there is no conflict with the EULA or anything else. And if the hooks are there and they want to ban them then they should simply remove them, because its simply using what CCP has put there so they can f*** off until they remove them if its such a big deal.


As I said, consider filing a petition before using IGB market cycling and cache scraping tools.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#28 - 2013-02-13 04:03:32 UTC
Wasnt CCP planning on charging sites that use API features like this, actual real world money?

If so then I think some one up there wasn't perfectly happy about something, so are the sites being charges monies now?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#29 - 2013-02-13 04:28:37 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
Wasnt CCP planning on charging sites that use API features like this, actual real world money?

If so then I think some one up there wasn't perfectly happy about something, so are the sites being charges monies now?


They scrapped the "nominal" $99 fee about the same time as the rest of Incarnagate.

They are working on the new CREST API, but who knows what specific abilities that'll have.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-02-13 05:18:15 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
Wasnt CCP planning on charging sites that use API features like this, actual real world money?

If so then I think some one up there wasn't perfectly happy about something, so are the sites being charges monies now?


They scrapped the "nominal" $99 fee about the same time as the rest of Incarnagate.

They are working on the new CREST API, but who knows what specific abilities that'll have.


They scrapped the charge, I can't remember where they said it but they did say it.
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#31 - 2013-02-13 06:02:10 UTC
Please stop taking the attention of Devs away from the real issues.

@Devs just ban the bot/site/macro (w/e these fine MD gentlemen are saying), so you can go back to the fixing pos's & Corps interaction with pos's, enough is enough.

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#32 - 2013-02-13 06:13:39 UTC
Candy Oshea wrote:
Please stop taking the attention of Devs away from the real issues.

@Devs just ban the bot/site/macro (w/e these fine MD gentlemen are saying), so you can go back to the fixing pos's & Corps interaction with pos's, enough is enough.


CCP put the hooks in the IGB that allow it to open market details on items.
CCP has also said previously that reading the Cache files is fine because it's simply reading text files (you're not doing anything in game at all).

Some of the suggestions in the other thread (automatically editing the Copy/Paste cache) are more hinky or actually botting.

You're suggesting that the Devs ban EVE-Central and all the users of EVE-Central for using a tool that CCP has previously said was fine to use (Contribtastic and their IGB site).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#33 - 2013-02-13 06:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Candy Oshea
RubyPorto wrote:

You're suggesting that the Devs ban EVE-Central and all the users of EVE-Central for using a tool that CCP has previously said was fine to use (Contribtastic and their IGB site).


Who gets banned for what, isn't my, your or the OP's problem.

Wasting resources on 3rd party programs and sites is my beef, take the necessary action and move forward.

Edit: Sorry Ruby, Does it pose a security threat? i know nothing about any coding stuff.

It pisses me off that IMO Minor problems like these get attention, when the obvious Problems with the actual game, are still there (although its better than it has ever been <3)

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#34 - 2013-02-13 09:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
RubyPorto wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:
If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.


There are perfectly legal tools that cycle through market windows. They use hooks that CCP intentionally put into the IGB for that use and whose use is explicitly allowed by CCP.

They do not buy anything, they simply cycle through the market, updating caches.


CCP Sreegs may have banned them today, though. I'm not sure.

Consider sending in a petition about them before use.


And you'll get a GM reply, and when you'll state the GM is OK with it, then Sreegs will say he does not consider GM's replies authoritative and will say he's the one who in the end decides.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#35 - 2013-02-13 12:48:22 UTC

CCP Sreegs does seem to have banned these but I've directly requested that CCP make a public policy statement regarding these.
Rengerel en Distel
#36 - 2013-02-13 13:24:56 UTC
Candy Oshea wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

You're suggesting that the Devs ban EVE-Central and all the users of EVE-Central for using a tool that CCP has previously said was fine to use (Contribtastic and their IGB site).


Who gets banned for what, isn't my, your or the OP's problem.

Wasting resources on 3rd party programs and sites is my beef, take the necessary action and move forward.

Edit: Sorry Ruby, Does it pose a security threat? i know nothing about any coding stuff.

It pisses me off that IMO Minor problems like these get attention, when the obvious Problems with the actual game, are still there (although its better than it has ever been <3)


I'm not sure you really want the security team coding POSs. Unless your beef is that you want the security team fired, so that they can hire more coders instead, which wouldn't end well for the game either.

As for the bot/not a bot thing, i think anyone who thought having a javascript updating your orders, even while you were at the keyboard, wasn't botting was just trying to justify it to themselves.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#37 - 2013-02-13 13:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Candy Oshea
Rengerel en Distel wrote:

I'm not sure you really want the security team coding POSs. Unless your beef is that you want the security team fired, so that they can hire more coders instead, which wouldn't end well for the game either.


i Assume every bit of code would be "Q/A" by a " Security team.", or passed onto them? somewhere from code to product.

What if one of the pos coders gets butthurt about something planted a Virus in any patch?. sounds like hes venting a little prolly coz he missed it.

im just reading through the threadnaught now, 1 post ccp guy says he doesnt like the hole, next post he said he wants in API, sounds like a minor thing anyway.

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!
GreenSeed
#38 - 2013-02-13 14:09:28 UTC
the OP and his friends need to stop making alt posts on different forums taking that line in the EULA out of context to try and excuse one of their e-friends bad behavior.

he was botting and he got what he deserved, and no multiboxing is not against the EULA, cache scrapping is not against the EULA, CREST interaction with the server are not against the EULA. and yeah, if by any chance there's any conflict they will rewrite the EULA to clear it up, because its not law, they can do whatever they want with it.

get over it.
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-02-13 14:18:08 UTC
Candy Oshea wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

You're suggesting that the Devs ban EVE-Central and all the users of EVE-Central for using a tool that CCP has previously said was fine to use (Contribtastic and their IGB site).


Who gets banned for what, isn't my, your or the OP's problem.

Wasting resources on 3rd party programs and sites is my beef, take the necessary action and move forward.

Edit: Sorry Ruby, Does it pose a security threat? i know nothing about any coding stuff.

It pisses me off that IMO Minor problems like these get attention, when the obvious Problems with the actual game, are still there (although its better than it has ever been <3)


You do realize that the DEV's and GM's are two separate groups who deal with different thing? And as someone has already said the market searcher uses hooks that CCP put in the game so no worries.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#40 - 2013-02-13 15:19:37 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
As for the bot/not a bot thing, i think anyone who thought having a javascript updating your orders, even while you were at the keyboard, wasn't botting was just trying to justify it to themselves.


Which is not at all what Cache Scraping or the IGB Javascript hooks/tools do. Thanks for playing.


The Javascript (which uses hooks/tools that CCP programmed into the IGB) cycles through items (at a relatively slow rate because CCP placed timers on the hooks) to update your cache (basically a text file that the game keeps of orders you have seen). The cache scraper reads that cache and provides it to another program(i.e. EVEMon, EVE Mentat, etc.)/spreadsheet(Excel)/website(EVE Central). No orders are updated at any point in this process.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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