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DUST514 article in Develop

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Charles Javeroux
INTERSTELLAR CREDIT
#1 - 2011-10-26 09:53:46 UTC
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#2 - 2011-10-26 10:27:30 UTC
Wow, some eye-opening statements made there.
Good article, a must-read.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-26 11:11:27 UTC
Good luck to the DUST team.

Though I do not own a PS3 or even play FPS games much, I can still sense there is a wealth of untapped potential to be explored here and I hope CCP will be the ones to do it.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

mkint
#4 - 2011-10-26 11:13:53 UTC
The article goes to a lot of effort to not say much:

tl;dr - facebook is more popular than ps3. ps3 should be more like facebook. dust is going to be as low quality as all those fb games people consume and throw away.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-10-26 11:16:24 UTC
Well PS3 badly needs good exclusive games, so at least they will hype it as much as possible.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#6 - 2011-10-26 12:45:19 UTC
Hmm...

The difference is the slow uptake model is that EVE had something to do and explore...even if you couldn't own a battleship due to cost or skills, it was something you could see on the horizon as your future.

Applying the same psychology to an FPS...how is that supposed to work?

Are there going to be any areas to explore? Doubt it - although providing intel to other players for ISK would be a frickin' cool sideline for players...cloaked snipers with binoculars scoping territory and feeding back...

In an FPS, your future is what? The promise of wealth? The respect? more frags?

What's the motivation to keep playing/logging in?

Why should someone expend time in an FPS that is incomplete and has unobtainable goals?

tldr;

EVE has exploration, Dust doesn't.

If that article tells me anything, it's that they are overintellectualising an FPS.

Massive assumption based on a completely different game.

The entire concept of Dust is going to marketed straight over the head of the average PS3 gamer - I just know it.

Does anyone at CCP have any marketing plans and schedules they wish to share?

What do CCP beleive [in simple geometrics] is the target audience of Dust?

What is their age?
What is in their game library?
M or F?
How many hours a week do they play games?
How much game time per week is dedicated to FPS games?

Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?


This space for rent.
Madam Steele
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-10-26 13:09:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Madam Steele
From article:

To verbatim quote Reggie Fils-Aime in a way he wouldn’t approve: “The graveyard of any industry is filled with the headstones of companies who decided to keep doing things the same old way”.


“At CCP we’ve always believed that what happened in the PC space, when it was reborn around online gaming, would eventually happen with consoles. It is at that very point that we wanted to come in and lead the way.”

It has not been decided whether Dust 514 will be packaged and sold at retail. The game is expected to cost around $20 and, as a bonus, will be bundled with that same amount in virtual currency. Elementally, it is a free-to-play game that requires a deposit.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#8 - 2011-10-26 14:06:23 UTC
Yah.. agree that it's a must read. Dust looks sweet...looking forward to giving it a spin... Pirate

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#9 - 2011-10-26 14:22:45 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Hmm...

The difference is the slow uptake model is that EVE had something to do and explore...even if you couldn't own a battleship due to cost or skills, it was something you could see on the horizon as your future.

Applying the same psychology to an FPS...how is that supposed to work?

Are there going to be any areas to explore? Doubt it - although providing intel to other players for ISK would be a frickin' cool sideline for players...cloaked snipers with binoculars scoping territory and feeding back...

In an FPS, your future is what? The promise of wealth? The respect? more frags?

(snipping for clarity, not for lack of merit)


I think that what Sony/CCP hopes is to extend on the corp structure and community effects.

I'm not that sure that the psychology of an FPS player is that different.

Sure, you can't provide the skills, the tank, the dps or experience of your corpies.
But you can still learn and use the resources you have in an intelligent way.

Which in turn will get you status/swag/cred with your friends and peers (and possibly even enemies).

There appears to be a feeling amongst the PC (and Mac) users that all console users are (pre-)teens with ADD.

I've got friends (really I do!) and friends of friends who are both 40 and 50+, but who likes playing console games because they can't be arsed to get a Pc/Mac gaming rig.

And I've also noted (not at least in EvE) that your classic console-kid functions perfectly in a Corp in EvE, as long as they get some form of notice and respect for listening, learning, trying and doing their best.

So while you have several valid points, I don't think we should dismiss the "console crowd" that easily.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Madam Steele
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-10-26 14:28:45 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:
Hmm...

The difference is the slow uptake model is that EVE had something to do and explore...even if you couldn't own a battleship due to cost or skills, it was something you could see on the horizon as your future.

Applying the same psychology to an FPS...how is that supposed to work?

Are there going to be any areas to explore? Doubt it - although providing intel to other players for ISK would be a frickin' cool sideline for players...cloaked snipers with binoculars scoping territory and feeding back...

In an FPS, your future is what? The promise of wealth? The respect? more frags?

(snipping for clarity, not for lack of merit)


I think that what Sony/CCP hopes is to extend on the corp structure and community effects.

I'm not that sure that the psychology of an FPS player is that different.

Sure, you can't provide the skills, the tank, the dps or experience of your corpies.
But you can still learn and use the resources you have in an intelligent way.

Which in turn will get you status/swag/cred with your friends and peers (and possibly even enemies).

There appears to be a feeling amongst the PC (and Mac) users that all console users are (pre-)teens with ADD.

I've got friends (really I do!) and friends of friends who are both 40 and 50+, but who likes playing console games because they can't be arsed to get a Pc/Mac gaming rig.

And I've also noted (not at least in EvE) that your classic console-kid functions perfectly in a Corp in EvE, as long as they get some form of notice and respect for listening, learning, trying and doing their best.

So while you have several valid points, I don't think we should dismiss the "console crowd" that easily.


Agreed. The friends I play on Xbox 360 with are two fire fighters, a naval officer and a 47 year old father with three children.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-10-26 14:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Quote:
Dust 514 could revolutionise the PlayStation Network. It could bring a microtransaction craze to consoles.


lol its a "craze" IE a "fad" not "industry standard"

Quote:
The difference in philosophy between PC and console is typified by Valve’s Team Fortress 2, an FPS released in 2007. On PC, the game has been updated more than 200 times – all at no charge. One update added a microtransactions economy, another made the game entirely free for everyone. On Xbox 360, it has received a handful of updates, which Valve has been forced to charge customers for.

At the time of writing, Team Fortress 2 is the second most played game across the entire Steam network. On the 360 it is becoming old and forgotten; its customers have discarded it in favour of something else.


good point. CCP are gonna have to undo this trend or dust will be a flop

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2011-10-26 14:45:21 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:
Hmm...

The difference is the slow uptake model is that EVE had something to do and explore...even if you couldn't own a battleship due to cost or skills, it was something you could see on the horizon as your future.

Applying the same psychology to an FPS...how is that supposed to work?

Are there going to be any areas to explore? Doubt it - although providing intel to other players for ISK would be a frickin' cool sideline for players...cloaked snipers with binoculars scoping territory and feeding back...

In an FPS, your future is what? The promise of wealth? The respect? more frags?

(snipping for clarity, not for lack of merit)


I think that what Sony/CCP hopes is to extend on the corp structure and community effects.

I'm not that sure that the psychology of an FPS player is that different.

Sure, you can't provide the skills, the tank, the dps or experience of your corpies.
But you can still learn and use the resources you have in an intelligent way.

Which in turn will get you status/swag/cred with your friends and peers (and possibly even enemies).

There appears to be a feeling amongst the PC (and Mac) users that all console users are (pre-)teens with ADD.

I've got friends (really I do!) and friends of friends who are both 40 and 50+, but who likes playing console games because they can't be arsed to get a Pc/Mac gaming rig.

And I've also noted (not at least in EvE) that your classic console-kid functions perfectly in a Corp in EvE, as long as they get some form of notice and respect for listening, learning, trying and doing their best.

So while you have several valid points, I don't think we should dismiss the "console crowd" that easily.



Good post. I'm sure there must be more ridiculous things than video game platform snobbery, but I can't easily think of one.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#13 - 2011-10-26 14:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Quote:
The Zynga model is coming to PS3, along with its limitless potential and lucrative microtransactions, and it could make Sony a fortune.


I like the complete lack of mention of CCP till this point

Quote:
“The console space right now is where the PC was before the internet really kicked off,” says Thor Gunnarsson, CCP’s VP of business development.

“It is about to leap forwards and it won’t look back,” he tells Develop.


THERES that Icelandic ego lol

Quote:
The average weekly playtime is said to be 17 hours, or about 2.5 hours per day.


lol this says "its a casual friendly game" to me

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
stoicfaux
#14 - 2011-10-26 14:51:39 UTC
“The console space right now is where the PC was before the internet really kicked off,” says Thor Gunnarsson, CCP’s VP of business development."

Good point. The net enabled consoles try to keep their customers trapped in a walled in private playpen/network. DUST has the potential to upset that paradigm.

Reminds me of Compuserve or Prodigy before the internet took off.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-10-26 14:52:28 UTC
This is an extremely long read...but very much worth it and very enlightening. I am still reading but came accross something I thought would be good to post up.

Quote:
CCP has a strong relationship with Microsoft – in fact Eve’s back-end server tech is based on Windows – so Gunnarsson is politely talking around the issue. What he won’t say is that Microsoft had an opportunity, back in 2009, to launch the world’s first console MMO FPS with another studio entirely.

The game was called Huxley, built by Webzen and intended to feature cross-platform play between PC and Xbox, as well as incorporate a microtransactions model. It was trying to be everything Dust 514 is aiming for. But during its development, Microsoft put a ban on the cross-platform feature. Then it prohibited the microtransactions. Huxley never made it onto Xbox.

“We’re always keen to collaborate with both Microsoft and Sony,” Gunnarsson begins, “but when it came to Dust 514, Sony was in many ways more open to learn with us.”

“In regards to Xbox and PS3, what we found as we got in conversation with the platform holders is that it became more and more evident to us that we had a difficult decision to make.”

Launching Dust on both Xbox and PS3 would have resulted in, as Gunnarsson puts it, “two low-common-denominator games”. He doesn’t elaborate, but is likely referring to how both consoles wouldn’t have communicated with each other, and possibly wouldn’t be linked to PC.


Now we know pretty much EXACTLY why DUST will never make it to the XBox and it is not for the lack of trying on CCP's part. Blame Microsoft.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-10-26 14:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Quote:
The inherent tension is that there are too many players and not enough space for everyone to live in harmony.


um way you hear it from the ppl that are trying to get CCP to send high sec players to 0.0 is its the other way around. Too much space, not enough people.

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
This is an extremely long read...but very much worth it and very enlightening. I am still reading but came accross something I thought would be good to post up.

Quote:
CCP has a strong relationship with Microsoft – in fact Eve’s back-end server tech is based on Windows – so Gunnarsson is politely talking around the issue. What he won’t say is that Microsoft had an opportunity, back in 2009, to launch the world’s first console MMO FPS with another studio entirely.

The game was called Huxley, built by Webzen and intended to feature cross-platform play between PC and Xbox, as well as incorporate a microtransactions model. It was trying to be everything Dust 514 is aiming for. But during its development, Microsoft put a ban on the cross-platform feature. Then it prohibited the microtransactions. Huxley never made it onto Xbox.

“We’re always keen to collaborate with both Microsoft and Sony,” Gunnarsson begins, “but when it came to Dust 514, Sony was in many ways more open to learn with us.”

“In regards to Xbox and PS3, what we found as we got in conversation with the platform holders is that it became more and more evident to us that we had a difficult decision to make.”

Launching Dust on both Xbox and PS3 would have resulted in, as Gunnarsson puts it, “two low-common-denominator games”. He doesn’t elaborate, but is likely referring to how both consoles wouldn’t have communicated with each other, and possibly wouldn’t be linked to PC.


Now we know pretty much EXACTLY why DUST will never make it to the XBox and it is not for the lack of trying on CCP's part. Blame Microsoft.


Yeah... they wouldnt allow microtransactions an PS will. I dont think "blame" is the right word here

Quote:
It is called a Titan. A supermassive all-purpose mobile battle station. The strongest possible ship in Eve.

I thought those were supercaps
Or rather supercap blobs lol

"Of the 300,000 Eve players, only around 150 such ships are known to exist." Thats all? Id have thought there were more, given the numbers of supercaps I hear about

"Yet despite their rarity, these battleship giants are subject to much controversy. It is because each Titan is fitted with a doomsday device – a nuclear bomb that will destroy virtually any player engulfed within its vast blast radius. As a way of regulating the ship’s overwhelming power, CCP ensured that each doomsday weapon shuts down for a whole hour after activated. However that, in turn, left the Titan essentially defenceless for sixty minutes, so again the ship was revised and fitted with a warp generator that allows it to flee an area near-instantly." eh when was this written? last Ive heard the DD isnt a AOE anymore

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-10-26 15:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Quote:
Dust 514 battles take place not in Eve’s star systems, but on a select number of planets.


eh wait what? Not in EVE?
oh nvm
but select planets? What select planets O.o
The "select"ness of the planets available could well make the Dusties useless. Fights on rocks they dont have access to.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-26 15:04:21 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Quote:
The inherent tension is that there are too many players and not enough space for everyone to live in harmony.


um way you hear it from the ppl that are trying to get CCP to send high sec players to 0.0 is its the other way around. Too much space, not enough people.

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
This is an extremely long read...but very much worth it and very enlightening. I am still reading but came accross something I thought would be good to post up.

Quote:
CCP has a strong relationship with Microsoft – in fact Eve’s back-end server tech is based on Windows – so Gunnarsson is politely talking around the issue. What he won’t say is that Microsoft had an opportunity, back in 2009, to launch the world’s first console MMO FPS with another studio entirely.

The game was called Huxley, built by Webzen and intended to feature cross-platform play between PC and Xbox, as well as incorporate a microtransactions model. It was trying to be everything Dust 514 is aiming for. But during its development, Microsoft put a ban on the cross-platform feature. Then it prohibited the microtransactions. Huxley never made it onto Xbox.

“We’re always keen to collaborate with both Microsoft and Sony,” Gunnarsson begins, “but when it came to Dust 514, Sony was in many ways more open to learn with us.”

“In regards to Xbox and PS3, what we found as we got in conversation with the platform holders is that it became more and more evident to us that we had a difficult decision to make.”

Launching Dust on both Xbox and PS3 would have resulted in, as Gunnarsson puts it, “two low-common-denominator games”. He doesn’t elaborate, but is likely referring to how both consoles wouldn’t have communicated with each other, and possibly wouldn’t be linked to PC.


Now we know pretty much EXACTLY why DUST will never make it to the XBox and it is not for the lack of trying on CCP's part. Blame Microsoft.


Yeah... they wouldnt allow microtransactions an PS will. I dont think "blame" is the right word here

Quote:
It is called a Titan. A supermassive all-purpose mobile battle station. The strongest possible ship in Eve.

I thought those were supercaps
Or rather supercap blobs lol

"Of the 300,000 Eve players, only around 150 such ships are known to exist." Thats all? Id have thought there were more, given the numbers of supercaps I hear about

"Yet despite their rarity, these battleship giants are subject to much controversy. It is because each Titan is fitted with a doomsday device – a nuclear bomb that will destroy virtually any player engulfed within its vast blast radius. As a way of regulating the ship’s overwhelming power, CCP ensured that each doomsday weapon shuts down for a whole hour after activated. However that, in turn, left the Titan essentially defenceless for sixty minutes, so again the ship was revised and fitted with a warp generator that allows it to flee an area near-instantly." eh when was this written? last Ive heard the DD isnt a AOE anymore


No...learn to read. It primarily has to do with "cross platform play" that Microsoft refuses to allow. I am sure Microtransactions are part of it but far from the main factor. Stop trying to point everything to Microtransactions. They are here to stay so get used to it.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#19 - 2011-10-26 15:04:53 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
“The console space right now is where the PC was before the internet really kicked off,” says Thor Gunnarsson, CCP’s VP of business development."

Good point. The net enabled consoles try to keep their customers trapped in a walled in private playpen/network. DUST has the potential to upset that paradigm.

Reminds me of Compuserve or Prodigy before the internet took off.



Or Msn.

Aka Microsoft Network, which was that MS tried to push as their way of letting their users access the big, bad and dangerouse Internet.

Or, Apple Appstore to get a bit more modern ;)

Sony wants a chunk of the cake, they can't use any OS platform, so they use the one they have, the PS3.

CCP is an indy developer with a (somewhat) functioning MMO gaming universe and an active (and some somewhat dysfunctional) community.

It's a match made in heaven, for Sony, it might be one for CCP.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-10-26 15:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:


No...learn to read. It primarily has to do with "cross platform play" that Microsoft refuses to allow. I am sure Microtransactions are part of it but far from the main factor. Stop trying to point everything to Microtransactions. They are here to stay so get used to it.


um Im not... the first bit I read said XBOX wouldnt allow them and PS would and thats pretty obvious right there what the motivation was: money theyre a corporation first. A corporation is financial trouble if the layoffs are any suggestion. Not much suprising theyd go for the money here, especially in a product that in all liklihood has an expiration date

Quote:
Imagine fighting a ground campaign for days, perhaps even weeks, against an opposing force – clearly you’ll need supply lines. That would require someone in Eve to do that for you. There’s the old saying that an army marches on its stomach, right? Well we want to incorporate those supply lines in the gameplay.


So what happens when the system the planet is in is takes over in hours?

Quote:
The company’s Shanghai studio has been working on Dust for three years so far, opting for Unreal Engine 3 instead of its own PC-centric tech.


Huh didnt know it was unreal based. I saw ppl in other threads saying they should use the CRY engine or something.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
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