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CSM 8 - Vote for yourself, choose direct democracy and Night Beagle

First post First post
Author
Rek Seven
Galactic Deep Space Industries
Warped Intentions
#41 - 2013-02-08 15:23:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Night Beagle wrote:

It is my opinion that a null sec carebear mentality is beginning to infiltrate the WH way of life.


Please elaborate.

I seems to me that candidates who are not from large alliances are trying to win votes by demonizing those from large alliances. Unless you have a real justification for this then i think it does a huge disservice to the voters. Unity is what we need not division.

Issler Dainze got onto the CSM by saying he/would be the voice of the little guy but he/she was one of the least productive people on the CSM last year.
chris elliot
Wildcard.
#42 - 2013-02-08 17:23:01 UTC
I would still appreciate an answer to my question.
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#43 - 2013-02-08 17:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaderift
chris elliot wrote:
I would still appreciate an answer to my question.



he did mention using an APi auth on his server to allow only WH dwellers to vote on it. Though how would you decide who is a WH dweller and who is just a null or low sec alliance farming them
Bernie Nator
Mathonian Industries
#44 - 2013-02-08 18:50:36 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
I find that my candidacy raised some interesting issues. I will not comment on sings and grudges, although I will on what causes them and how this is preventing better gameplay for everyone.

It was said repeatedly that candidates should come form large alliances, with various degree of motivating this claim.
It is my opinion that a null sec carebear mentality is beginning to infiltrate the WH way of life. I concur to the opinion that being at some point in large organizations, experiencing c5-6, but also living in smaller class WH, are necessary step in acquiring first hand knowledge.
I have that. I've been there, and I've been silent, listening, watching, learning how to enjoy the game and how to use the numbers for that. Maybe I was unknown when I posted the topic, but now I believe my killboard and employment history is common knowledge. Weather one considers it enough or not, that is a matter of personal taste and opinion, and everyone is entitled to have and express its opinion.
This brings me to the "large alliance issue".
Can one group of players no matter how large claim that it is in possession of the absolute and unique solutions?
Can one claim that candidates must absolutely come from those alliances? Can one contest the right of any player, even from a one man corp to candidate and present its opinions?
All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others. George Orwell, Animal Farm (1945)
As I see it the whole thing with WH representative is becoming a a** kis***g contest ... and while we have our share of people playing competently playing this game, I am in for another trip.
I was expecting this: to judge the man even before looking at the idea, grandeur dreams about controlling others thoughts and actions, refusal to accept responsibility and preference for the all knowing leader figure.
I was not disappointed.
However, I am here to fight and win with a platform based on Liquid Feedback.
Therefore, my comment on preventing highjacks of votes on the platform is the following: API verified, WH corp identity check.


Rocking the boat,

Night Beagle

PS> I'm no alt :)

So what youre saying is that when issues come up at CSM meetings, you'll be opening up a vote mid meeting to a percentage of eve players that the issue youll be discussing might not even be affected by, more than likely breaking your NDA in the process, all because you're doing it in the name of liquid feedback / democracy.

And you expect to be a capable representative how? Please, tell me more on how you can be represent us.
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#45 - 2013-02-08 18:57:28 UTC
@Rek Seven
Look at the numbers and killboards. My interpretation of them is that we currently have more and more player groups moving into WH, setting farming operations and occasionally hunting outside WH space. Using the space to fulfill a need for isk, but bringing only occasional skirmishes when they are caught farming.
WH space in no longer populated only with the notable wh corps, and many kills are only result of bad scouting from farmers. I claim not that it is a mass phenomenon but the signs are in the numbers. Larger and larger player groups, moving or developing into a space for more isk than content. Can one corp, however eager to fight and have fun, compete with behemoths? Is this stimulating a regrouping of corps? Null is not about good fights is about domination. With enough firepower and determination WHs can be a new null. Greed is a good engine for change.
Also I claim not to represent anyone or be a part of some big vs small stance. I believe in equity and democracy, and I support that even if others will feel differently. I am not opposing anyone, I am not comparing myself to anyone, I am offering to be the best representative you ever had. I am screwing up with a state of play and opening a new future.

@chris elliot Phaderift pointed correctly. My fault that I did not marked appropriately as I've done for all other replies. Good point on establishing who is a WH corp, but surely not a obstacle.

@Bernie Nator No I am saying that I will go there prepared, I will respect the NDA, but make sure that the input of the community will be presented to CCP. I am underlying the fact the CSM is not decision making body but a discussion one and every topic that can be disclosed can also be put up for the community. Choose me because I do not claim to have all the answers, but instead I promise to share and relay. Will you prefer Xerses or Leonidas?
(Yeah I know, he died, I will stop making historical references)

The world needs you to stop being boring!

chris elliot
Wildcard.
#46 - 2013-02-08 21:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: chris elliot
Night Beagle wrote:


@chris elliot Phaderift pointed correctly. My fault that I did not marked appropriately as I've done for all other replies. Good point on establishing who is a WH corp, but surely not a obstacle.



Thank you for answering the question.


Night Beagle wrote:

Choose me because I do not claim to have all the answers, but instead I promise to share and relay.


So basically exactly what Nathan Jameson is promising to do.


Why should I vote for you over him if you are both claiming to do the same thing?
Poloturion
Genco Pura Olive Oil Company.
#47 - 2013-02-09 06:22:08 UTC
Can you try adding an extra line between your paragraphs, it will make you walls of text less painful to look at.

Oh and using the political structures of long dead civilizations is a terrible platform.

Also, please fix POS.

Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#48 - 2013-02-10 10:23:04 UTC
I've read the thread. Whilst the idea is nice it just won't work. Have you been listening to any of the podcasts recently? CSM members will need to rely of their own deep understanding of EVE issues due to a) NDA, and b) the sometimes unpredictable directions that CCP suddenly decides to move in?

How will you poll wormhole dwellers (a challenge in itself) on an issue that no-one foresaw and that you cannot specify due to commercial-in-confidence matters?

Now, repeat after me: "A before consonant, AN before vowel." :) You are a lawyer after all. Right?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#49 - 2013-02-10 11:10:30 UTC
@chris elliot All CSM candidates should in fact aim to deliver the same thing to the community, the difference being in the way they are foreseeing to do that.

@Zappity You are right up in stating that some unforeseen situation can arise, where no planning can help. But are we preparing for that only eventuality instead of approaching the 99% of the problems? I am confident that once the community chooses to assume responsibility many previously not heard arguments and proposals will arise thus increasing preparedness for whatever CCP throws at us.
On the grammatical issues: I do many mistakes, I already stated that English is not my native language, therefore corrections are welcomed.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

chris elliot
Wildcard.
#50 - 2013-02-11 21:52:46 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
@chris elliot All CSM candidates should in fact aim to deliver the same thing to the community, the difference being in the way they are foreseeing to do that.



So with you I have to keep track and "vote" on every little thing, that isn't sealed under NDA, which isn't much. But with the others I just vote for them once and let them do all the work for me?

Why would someone want to do any more work to play a game than they absolutely have to?
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#51 - 2013-02-12 10:47:34 UTC
@chris elliot Is as simple as logging in to forums and posting something. If this is work, Liquid Feedback allows also delegation of votes, therefore you can choose to let somebody else vote in your place, with the advantage of being able to take back the delegation and give it to somebody else that corresponds to your views.
What the representative systems (like CSM) have in common, is the impossibility for the voters to dismiss a representative. What my platform proposes is vote yourself or delegate with the possibility to dismiss. In fact I do expect to have several players with large alliances getting the entire alliance voting powers, which will not disturb the balance of power as decisions are being made on the basis of number of votes and not on one mans opinion.


The world needs you to stop being boring!

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#52 - 2013-02-12 21:55:24 UTC
I love the way you keep dodging the questions both here and in your Jita park thread about how you can possibly put everything up to a vote.

Let me give you an example, though clearly the details will have to be under NDA:

A few weeks ago, CCP gave us a list of 30 or so features that could be part of the summer expansion. We had to tell them what we thought of the features, and which ones would be most desired by the community. At least 15 of them were things I had *never* heard mentioned at all before, including some fairly major ones. Even if you did manage to get tens or even hundreds of people to vote in your silly system, I suspect the features in question would have all had 5-10 votes. How would you answer CCP?

Also, again, why can't you do your crazy voting thing without being a CSM at all? What is stopping you from setting it up right now? How would it be different than other voting systems, like the now abandoned http://wormholeideafactory.ideascale.com/?

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#53 - 2013-02-12 23:06:21 UTC
Troll thread is ...... wait... was I supposed to take this thread seriously?
Sith1s Spectre
Holesale
Holesale Operations
#54 - 2013-02-13 23:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sith1s Spectre
I just don't understand how you can use your concept of letting everyone have a vote be your platform.

People want to elect someone who will be a leader, who will be able to make the hard decisions. What they don't want (in my opinion) is someone who says i'll leave it up to my computer to decide the outcome.

Look at the real world for examples & we elect people who we believe will lead us and represent our views best.

TL:DR most people hate voting once, let alone making us vote on every single little issue that you feel needs to be address. Be a man and make your own decisions.

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#55 - 2013-02-13 23:47:14 UTC
@Two Step: glad you like it (phun intended) The sistem will be there no matter the election results, however without somebody to bring the discussion to CSM its efficiency will be lower.

@Sith1s Spectre You just pointed the fundamental issue: because the man/woman we elect in real life usually do not deliver what promised. Let's make EVE different.
Make a change for one.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Sith1s Spectre
Holesale
Holesale Operations
#56 - 2013-02-14 00:10:43 UTC
But you missed my point.

People elect a clear leader who has strong views and opinions. All (in my opinion which may be right or wrong) i'm getting from you is a computer who decides on votes done by the public.

For me, it's what YOUR thoughts/opinions are that matters, not what the Random Number Generator you have in your basement spits out

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-02-14 01:11:50 UTC
I think I might vote for you based on your awesome name alone. Never even been in a wormhole...

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."

Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#58 - 2013-02-14 09:05:46 UTC
The interview with Xander can be found now on:

http://crossingzebras.com/post/43036348761/csm8nightbeagle

Many thanks!

@Sid Hudgens> That is a perfectly valid reason

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Winthorp
#59 - 2013-02-14 10:11:47 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
The interview with Xander can be found now on:

http://crossingzebras.com/post/43036348761/csm8nightbeagle

Many thanks!

@Sid Hudgens> That is a perfectly valid reason


I actually listened to this and am now not sure if you have massively trolled us all with this platform? If not you can't be serious. WTF.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-02-14 11:56:33 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Night Beagle wrote:
The interview with Xander can be found now on:

http://crossingzebras.com/post/43036348761/csm8nightbeagle

Many thanks!

@Sid Hudgens> That is a perfectly valid reason


I actually listened to this and am now not sure if you have massively trolled us all with this platform? If not you can't be serious. WTF.


Serious or not, his will is about to happen. People will voice their opinions by voting, it will just be for someone else than this guy.